shah269 0 #1 Posted February 14, 2011 MY EMBA project has....let's say started developing some leggs. And a very important question came up...."What's the best tunnel design?" And by best, more specificaly what is best for the average person who has never ever been in the air to become stable? I personally have flown in the Skyventure in Montreal as well as what appeared to be a prehistoric tunnel in Niagra Falls. My personal experience from watching others was that the skyventure model was significantly easier to use and to get stable than the Niagra Falls design. We are talking ease of entry and exit and most importantly laminar air flow. The tunnel desingers I have found so far are; http://www.aerodium-technologies.com/en/products/models/closed-recirculation/ (as I understand, this design has yet to be built) http://skyventure.com/ http://www.air2tunnel.com/Wind_Tunnel_Models.html I would appreciate some discussion and your thoughts, PLEASE NO PISSING MATCHES...Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #2 February 14, 2011 my favorite would be the Bedford type, for the ease of entry/exit between slots (by this I mean the access to pre-flight chamber). If you need to pee after 2 minutes, you can go pee, and not need to wait for the next 15-30 minutes...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #3 February 14, 2011 piisfish What type of tunnel is that? And would you prefer it were say a glass walled structure rather than a tube? Thank youLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #4 February 14, 2011 Quotepiisfish What type of tunnel is that? And would you prefer it were say a glass walled structure rather than a tube? Thank you The Beford type is the type you build from an old military wind tunnel that's immense.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #5 February 14, 2011 it's a Bodyflight tunnel, recirculating, round. More a tube than glass walls, onaly a couple of windows here and there, so not the best for viewers, but great for flyers, Less distraction. And generally (at least with adult skydivers) the flyer is the payer, so better for them.... http://www.bodyflight.co.uk/about/scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #6 February 14, 2011 4m ish? I think that's more or less what you will need to assure tourists that all is well. People don't enjoy spending large sums of cash to be placed in small tubes. I can't see from the picture, is that the "tube" type tunnel?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #7 February 14, 2011 check their pics in the galleries, plus check youtube for "bodyflight challenge". Quote The Bodyflight wind tunnel at a diameter of 5m (16.4ft) and a flight area 8m (26.25ft) tall, offers flyers real space to manoeuvre! a bit more than 4m ish scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #8 February 14, 2011 I was reading on the technology, yeah a bit more than 4m I'm looking at all these designs and I have to say Skyventure and other companies who lay their turbines on their sides really do have an advantage over the pusher / puller systems. Ease of access is the biggest issue and next from the looks of it per some slight math, they offer the most stable column of air. Which for a first timer is critical. When I flew Niagara Falls...how can I put it....No one got stable. It was like jumping on a greased beach ball. Every one left with a smile on their face but it looks as if no one thought it was really "worth" the cost. Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #9 February 14, 2011 Dumb thought....say you had a 5m tunnel. Could you in theory run it as a mill? Two instructors + to kids (100lbs or lighter?)Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #10 February 14, 2011 you could run it with 2 200lbs big kids/students. But as I am not a tunnel coach of any sort, don't know if it is a great idea to fly multiple first timers at the same time. Then you have the Dubai twin tunnel to fly two in parallel tunnels scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #11 February 14, 2011 Yeah but that's Dubai money....those guys have access to lots and lots of $$$$$ I'm thinking, two 100lb kids + two instructors on eather side of a 5m tunnel may work...really increase your income. I'll have to talk to my financial friends. We are actually looking at some property overlooking NYC. But I have to say Skyventure has some amazing customer service and a great sales pitch. No wonder they are the industry leaders.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #12 February 14, 2011 QuoteI'm thinking, two 100lb kids + two instructors on eather side of a 5m tunnel may work...really increase your income.not REALLY.. you need to double your instructors, plus it wouldn't be the safest. In addition a 5m is MUCH more expensive than say a 4m, and it uses much more electricity too....scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #13 February 14, 2011 Yeah I just got a note from Derek regarding the subject. From a quick look it's about $1mill/1meter. So yes a 5m tunnel would cost an extra $1mill of financing and more power to run the thing. So if you go big with a 5m tunnel you better have it running 24/7 for 5 years to make your money back. It's going to take a bit of calculus to get the optinal size. Big would be sexy, small would be just sad but maybe just right will work just right? It's a numbers game....Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #14 February 14, 2011 These guys made took the step and desgned their own tunnel: http://www.indoor-skydiving.com/ger/ From what i hear it is great.If it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #15 February 14, 2011 QuoteThese guys made took the step and desgned their own tunnel: http://www.indoor-skydiving.com/ger/ From what i hear it is great. http://www.indoor-skydiving.com/media/media0060501.JPG It's my way luckier twin! What up bro! Nice catch!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #16 February 15, 2011 I've heard the airlock design on this design beats all others hands down. It allows you to step in and out of the airlock while the tunnel is running so if you forgot something its not an issue or if you just want to get a drink at the bar or creep again you can!Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #17 February 15, 2011 QuoteI've heard the airlock design on this design beats all others hands down. It allows you to step in and out of the airlock while the tunnel is running so if you forgot something its not an issue or if you just want to get a drink at the bar or creep again you can!I guess the system is "Bedford-like". It is soooooo good to be able to get out of the preflight chamber to debrief, brief, pee, eat and drink or go back to your regular activities, all this independently...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #18 February 16, 2011 It is horses for courses really. I have flown in 2 tunnels that are very different. 1) Zurich has an open air tunnel. It requires much more skill to stay stable as the airflow isn't very smooth and you can "fall off" the column of air onto the cushions around the edge. The big positive on this is it is very cool to be able to "fly" up above the building (it is on top on a multi-story building) and see the countryside. 2) Bedford. I suspect it is unfair to compare this to commercially derived tunnels as it started its life as a Military test facility. This probably gives it huge headstart in terms of the money and engineering that was originally put into it - never mind what the Bodyflight guys have done to make it suitable for human flight. It is very large allowing you to learn without constantly hitting the walls, airflow is smooth and powerful. Note following one of your other posts - you couldn't double up newbies in a larger tunnel as it doesn't take long to travel 2 or 3m and that could result in bloody noses etc.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzle 0 #19 February 16, 2011 Bedford are now routinely putting 2 fliers and 2 instructors in there. They do a 1st flight on you own then (I think) 2 flights with another person in there, so the punter gets 3 flights for the price of 2. That's a fairly recent development in there. The airlock system is somewhat different to SkyVenture as Bedford doesn't require the doors shut, it's a noise control issue whereas SkyVenture design requires a degree of "pressurisation". That is my understanding at least. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #20 February 16, 2011 QuoteBedford are now routinely putting 2 fliers and 2 instructors in there. They do a 1st flight on you own then (I think) 2 flights with another person in there, so the punter gets 3 flights for the price of 2. That's a fairly recent development in there. The airlock system is somewhat different to SkyVenture as Bedford doesn't require the doors shut, it's a noise control issue whereas SkyVenture design requires a degree of "pressurisation". That is my understanding at least. Ok I stand corrected, although I am sure if you were unstable/not ready they wouldn't double things up.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gators1240 9 #21 February 16, 2011 As far as training is concerned I somewhat like a smaller tunnel, it forces you to really learn to precisely control your movements. For someone who has never done it before, maybe a little bigger is better. As far as marketability (not sure if that is a word or not) the best tunnel design I have see is hands down iFly Hollywood. The flight chamber is a plexiglass cone shape that is right at street level as soon as you walk out of the parking garage and into universal citywalk. So everyone walking by sees it and sees exactly what it is, on top of that they have huge monitors playing promo videos that can be seen from pretty far away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #22 February 16, 2011 Quote The flight chamber is a plexiglass cone shape that is right at street level as soon as you walk out of the parking garage and into universal citywalk. So everyone walking by sees it and sees exactly what it is, . as a lousy flyer, I wouldn't want people to see me try scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #23 February 16, 2011 QuoteBedford are now routinely putting 2 fliers and 2 instructors in there. They do a 1st flight on you own then (I think) 2 flights with another person in there, so the punter gets 3 flights for the price of 2. That's a fairly recent development in there. SEE...that's what I'm thinking. Any one will fly once...so why come back? Why spend 25 min and $300+ on tunnel time if you don't skydive? SO YOU CAN FLY WITH A FRIEND! It's all about getting people to experience something new from the same investment. Lots of great data out there, lot of amazing people. My team is always amazed at what level of data skydivers and tunnel operators can bring to the table. This may work. This may fly. Crossing fingers and toes. BUT......I just have to be more down to earth. As sexy as a 4M tunnel is....and it is sexy....a 3m tunnel may be more affordable. But the thought of a 4-5m tunnel, wall to wall....5m....oh that so sexy! any one know how big the Montreal tunnel isLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #24 February 16, 2011 Quote any one know how big the Montreal tunnel is do you want us to write down your business plan too ? according to www.skyventuremontreal.com/ it is a 14feeter, so 4,26mscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #25 February 16, 2011 Quote do you want us to write down your it is a 14feeter, so 4,26m Could you? Yeah I saw that, 4.26m...what an odd size? God it felt bigger......Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
