Why don't skydiver's like Vegas Style Tunnels?

[jtval 0]

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Tunnel drama kicks the shit out of dropzone drama... but needs more sex.

Posting that story (especially in this non-related thread) was just ridiculous.

So anybody know of a wind tunnel owner that's not EVIL?

Dave

Well, it was a "related" thread.

Had the question been What do people like about vegas style tunnels I would have told him what I like.
He asked why skydivers Don't Like it and I told him.

I did get off topic because I was speaking SPECIFICALLY about the vegas tunnel.


I DO see how Dave, as well as other readers, would think that I waited until I left Vegas to say any of this, but that was not my reasoning or intention for posting this.
I was simply answering a question that someone posted.

I've been known to do that from time to time.

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[jtval 0]

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First of all i dont know anybody in this conversation.

GO JT. If a buis. wont take care of someone that that has helped them, F@$K them. I am a buis. owner and would bend over backward to help anyone that will help me. I dont know the story behind all of this but, for manigers to bad mouth someone on a public forum is not good buis. As for Carly do you kiss your mother with that mouth??? Just cuase you didnt put it on a forum doesnt mean it wont end up there. Ohh and JT your replys are nicer than mine would have been[/reply
Thanks.
In the grand scheme of this thread I shouldn't have called the Dbags. I disagreed with the way the handled the situation and I giave my honest anwer to a question.

Again to the OP Sorry this got so diluted.
I answered your question with a specific example rather than a general one. But other than the politics there's not a lot dislike about those STYLE tunnels once you understand that it is TUNNEL FLYING.


So Excluding the drama I'll try again to answer your question for the 3rd time.

I didn't like the full price. I didn't like the heat but in Vegas you dont have a choice. But my opinion stands.
If there were two tunnels equidistant from me I would choose the one with the new techology.

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[pilotdave 0]

No, this isn't a thread related to how the tunnel used a picture you took and didn't pay you for it. This is about old-style blower tunnels and why skydivers don't tend to like them. Your rant was completely off topic and unnecessary. You sound just like every former tunnel employee that posts their rant about how a tunnel owner screwed them. You end up coming across like a whining baby and they don't sound like bad people at all. And then a link to this thread in your signature? Real mature...

You didn't answer the question at all... you just went on a tangent about how a manager of the vegas tunnel made you angry so you stopped coming back. And that makes the owners douchebags for some reason...

Dave

[jtval 0]

Yes, I did post why I don't like the Vegas tunnel.
I appreciate your opinion as such and I won't try to sway it.

True the link is immature. I'll admit that.
In the heat of it all I figured "screw it."


I did answer the question to the OP at least three times.

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[frost 1]

you're a very sad person... instead of posting private messages on a public forum, use your own advice - grow up

P.S. In 8 years of being on this forum you've logged only about 1100 jumps, but nearly 22000 posts, almost 20 times as many as you jumps! 8 per day! Go jump.

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

the quick answer to any marketing dilemma such as this "why aren't consumers buying my product" is either
1. They are not aware of your product or it's potential
2. They are aware and are not interested

that's the simple answer

the complicated answer has many layers

price point - complicated because while non SV tunnels are generally cheaper per minute (Vegas Indoor Skydiving excluded) it takes more minutes to get the hang of it. Therefore initially it can be thought of as more expensive.

air volume - I think this is certainly the big point. Skydivers who train in tunnels are looking for a certain volume of air more than anything I think, in order to recreate more closely the actual "freefall environment". Speed is often thought of as interchangeable, but it is not. Volume is the critical factor to simulating freefall and prop jobbies (as I affectionately call them) are not cabaple (at this time) of putting out that magical volume amount they are used to. Without the right volume, the body position, the suit, the sound, the response times & movements are all different than when you have high volume.

business feel/environment - the environment at "vegas style tunnels" is often relaxed, laid back, and chock full of tourists, the staff tend to be in stark contrast to the "corporate environment" many skydivers have become accustomed to at their regular training facility. Its very organized & predictable, all good qualities when you are mass producing a product or opening a franchise where customer loyalty is top priority.

location - last but certainly not least. I have never done any research on your region as far as viability so I cannot say for certain. But another layer may be revealed by simply finding out how many full time skydivers or teams are located in your area, and how many of them are currently paying for additional training, not only at tunnels but making huge amounts of training jumps, these folks already have income to spend just for your product, it's your job to provide them a suitable place to switch to.

********
I also have my personal opinion which is:
Some people dream of flying, flying everything from kites as kids, to planes, parachutes & their bodies.
Some folks just want to skydive, it's has it's own flavor, and it's NOT just about the bodyflight portion, clearly since that is such a small part of it.
So.. people who love to fly will fly all types of tunnels, machines & anything else they can coax into defying gravity and into the big blue sky.
Folks who want to skydive, or work toward becoming better skydivers, are going to stick with skydiving, and if a tunnel truly comes close to simulating that environment for them, then they will consider going and adding it to their skydiver toolbox, somewhere between creepers & dirt diving.

[BillyVance 34]

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you're a very sad person... instead of posting private messages on a public forum, use your own advice - grow up

P.S. In 8 years of being on this forum you've logged only about 1100 jumps, but nearly 22000 posts, almost 20 times as many as you jumps! 8 per day! Go jump.

I believe he racked up the majority of his posts in the one year he spent in South Korea with nothing much to do.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[mdrejhon 8]

NewClearSports

I have been going to windtunnels more regularly now that a military friend of mine organizes a group from time to time (someone named Mr. Kotscha), including visits with members of the Evolution team acting as instructors, to Skyventure New Hampshire (the Lemays). I'm looking forward to my next 2 hours of 4-way at the end of April at SVNH. I am not a military guy myself though... Obviously I pay for my tunnel instructor's flying (plus a little extra) so I'm the one paying to let SVNH fly both me and the outside (non-employed) instructor. To SVNH's perspective the instructor is flying for free but not really, because I've paid the instructor. SVNH has no problem outside instructors, because they realize I want real RW training from one of the Canada's top 4-way team, rather than a tunnel instructor who never skydived. Although Niagara may be Flyaway technology, the fact I fly in 4-way (3 persons plus 1 instructor) cuts my tunnel costs significantly, even though it means we all pay one third of the instructor's flying time... I am willing to try Niagara anyway, although I haven't heard if it was possible to fly 4-way group in that one. Also, one of my inspirations for the future is to someday become a Canada Big Way Record Holder (in the next 80-way or 100-way event at Skydive Burnaby). Skydive Burnaby near Lake Erie, also happens to be very nearby -- so I'm interested in going there a couple times again this year...

One of the groups was going to go to your Niagara to "give it a try" and was going to invite me along during the next visit as well.

I still would like to go to Niagara but I tend to stick with groups now (cheaper to fly 4-way than as solo). So if one of the people in these groups got scared away, they might spread negative PR. So I wonder if one of the people in one of my groups mentioned that something happened and got discouraged from Niagara since I haven't heard anything further about Niagara within this group lately. So there must be a chain effect happening...

I don't care whose fault it is, or why the publicity is low (among skydivers), but hey it is still wintertime, there's still time to advertise in CanPara magazine, there's still time to change policy, or clarify a more formal policy (i.e. 15 seconds of comp for every 2 hours total of customer referrals, etc.) or study SVNH's informal "visiting-tunnel-instructor" policies to see how they operate? Clear policy documents will eliminate misunderstandings. Did a skydiver make a mistake? Or did the tunnel make a mistake? Or both? I don't care, but there is plenty of time to market skydivers to bring them into the tunnel. Especially if it develops a good vibe among all my friends.

I live in Ottawa and it is very easy for me to get to Montreal, which is under a 5 hour trip from SVNH. So the time is roughly equal to SVNH versus to Niagara. And I don't own a car (as neither do some of the members of these groups)... So I can be on the fence, depending on what benefit there is - vibe, price, convenience, amenities, friendliness to people I know, etc... If some are choosing SVNH, I'm carpooling in their car (Ottawa or Montreal departures) -- if some may be going to Niagara (Ottawa or Kingston departures), you could be seeing me this year...

Maybe team up with Skydive Burnaby for instruction, etc? Much like instructors at NouvelAir teams up with SVNH from time to time. It is probably important you cultivate the Niagara area skydiving market (i.e. Skydive Burnaby) market and be familiar/respect its culture, otherwise that could kill that market...

Please note: Most Canadians don't read dropzone.com, so there may be others in my position... And at least two in my last group were in the same position as well...

(I'm now curiously wondering what has happened of my group's earlier trip to Niagara -- never heard from them about their experiences -- I'm going to ask why. I wonder if any of the negativity affected this...)

Neutral guy here, and don't care about politics. But I'm at the mercy of friends/groups who cultivate relationships with the windtunnel, or influenced by other people's experiences at the tunnel...