crashtested 0 #1 January 4, 2008 After slagging off wind tunnels 2 weeks ago, due to me thinking they were taking away money from DZ's, and not promoting the sport of skydiving, but promoting some sort of hybrid freak. somone challanged me to give it ago and see if it changed my feeling on it. So i turned up at airkix on wednesday handed over £120, and waited for 10 minutes of flight time!!1 YEAHHHHHH!!!! Everyone was super friendly there, the instuctor i had was cool, there was a slight hic up at the begining where i thought i would be able to practice sitflying, (i'm going for FS2) in a controlled area, unfortuntly you have to learn backfly first, but no backfly untill you prove you are stable in the tunnel? which i was not.. very strange seeing how bad a skydiver i am So i spent 4 x 2 mins getting my body shape back to how it should be, and 2 x mins just messing around with my new uber controlled skillz. I did find it frustrating how quickly the time went. and what i actuall acomplished.. Its great that i now fall more symetrically, and sure i am safer and better in the air, but my lord was it boaring, i felt like a caged hummingbird!! If i go back i then have to spend the time on my back hovering above the net for another £120 + and then maybe another £200 - £300 getting sit fly. I walked away feeling lighter of money, and unsatisfied in any way, 1 hour of my time £120 of my money, vanished, deverstating. Sooo the chalange was taken.. and I still don't get it. Just seems like a quick way to burn a shite load of money!! And the atmosphere was blindingly sterile.. kind of like it was owned by the goverment?? The skills of the instrucotrs though were amazing.. 55 real jumps and owning 4 dimensions!! gutting to watch I think my money will safely stay in my DZ's zone for ever more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #2 January 4, 2008 You might be surprised by how much you actually accomplished in 10 minutes of belly flying. If you didn't enjoy it, I guess it doesn't matter how useful the tunnel is for learning. I wouldn't have spent thousands of dollars for tunnel time if I didn't find it fun. It can be really frustrating and you often don't think you learned a thing, but magically you start getting better and better. I'm sure with 60 jumps you've moved beyond belly flying (pretty sure most people stop after graduating from student status, right?), but coached tunnel time has got to be the quickest way to pick up a lot of skills. Happens when you're not noticing... but I bet you were a better skydiver by the end of your 10 minutes than you were when you started. BTW, I tried back flying last month for my first time in the tunnel after hours of belly flying. So much fun... couldn't stop laughing the entire time I was flying. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #3 January 4, 2008 Well at least you discovered how poor your air skills are. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzle 0 #4 January 4, 2008 You may be disapointed in not being able to backfly or sitfly yet. If you go back again and watch beginner tunnel fliers (experienced freeflying skydivers) learn to sit, you may get more appreciation of why the tunnel ask you to demonstrate each level before moving on to the next one. Being in control in a sit in the tunnel is much more than being in control in the sky. I'd expect to need way more than another 3 - 400 before being able to sitfly in there (but then you may be very good) Personally I much prefer bedford to airkix, only been in airkix a couple of times though. Seemed more catering to wuffos than to skydivers (which is fair enough if they want to target that market - leaves time in bedford more accessible for us) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #5 January 5, 2008 I agree with you.........I have 1200 Freefly jumps and can do VRW in the sky. But I'm a student starting over in the Tunnel. After 2 Hrs I am finally sit flying. But unlike the OP........I see the true value of the Tunnel. If I can get to a point where I can Freefly well in the Tunnel. Then I will be kicking ass in the sky. It can do nothing but perfect my freeflying. And by the way learning how to backfly in the tunnel was a skill I'm glad I had to learn. It's just another skill I now have. I can't believe how many people have a negative attitude about learning new skills. I also can't believe how many freeflyers have a problem with starting over in the tunnel. If they have the skills to sitfly in the tunnel then surely proving they can belly fly and back fly first should be no issue. I think the reality check of he tunnel is just too much for some people. Oh well they can keep skydiving and progress SLOWLY while I iron out my Tunnel Skills and get on the next Freely World Record Big Way......See you in a few years when you catch up.Later, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djd 0 #6 January 5, 2008 Sent you a PM crash... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #7 January 5, 2008 Its all true..... But i want to use skydiving as a tool to progress, be it slowly or fast. maybe my form will be a little crappy But i entered this sport to skydive, I love the canopy, feel the best rush in the world in freefall, enjoy being with my friends at the dz, and love shagging aff, raps, and tandem students. I don't get the same satisfaction at the tunnel.. maybe there are just not enough girls hanging around looking for a hero!! But each to there own, i think the tunnel is a great tool for those who really want to progress or who can't get somthing right in the sky. for me i've all the time in the world! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jewels 0 #8 January 5, 2008 At least you tried it, and that's to your credit. As for women, though, the women I know who hang out at the tunnel OR at the dz aren't looking for heroes. They are heroines themselves. Find a whuffo if you want a girl to be awed by your skills.TPM Sister #102 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #9 January 5, 2008 You might be missing that the tunnel doesn't have to take away from skydiving at all. I did as many jumps last year as I wanted, and still went to the tunnel every month or two. One doesn't necessarily replace the other, unless you want it to. I went to the tunnel pretty much as often as I could afford (thank god it's not a few minutes closer or I'd be broke), and I was still at the DZ every weekend. Tunnels are great tools and a lot of fun (to me)... if you didn't enjoy it, that's fine. But your reasoning for not liking wind tunnels in general doesn't make much sense. You're right... they aren't skydiving. So what? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #10 January 5, 2008 Again I agree........The Tunnel will not replace Skydiving for me. It is a supplement, just like a really good vitamin every week. Although with the current ambient temperatures outside......The Tunnel will be my Warm Place this winter. I think what we all want the OP to know is that he can do both and not miss out on anything. But he did try it out before judging which is better than allot of folks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #11 January 6, 2008 QuoteAt least you tried it, and that's to your credit. As for women, though, the women I know who hang out at the tunnel OR at the dz aren't looking for heroes. They are heroines themselves. Find a whuffo if you want a girl to be awed by your skills. Very true, very true. The DZ or Tunnel is not usually the place to pick up someone. I skydive and go to the tunnel because I love to fly my body... Women, they just get you in trouble... (just kidding, i think?)Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jewels 0 #12 January 6, 2008 Yeah, women are definitely trouble and most of us are expensive--especially the ones with tunnel habits. TPM Sister #102 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #13 January 6, 2008 Quote I can't believe how many people have a negative attitude about learning new skills. I also can't believe how many freeflyers have a problem with starting over in the tunnel. I think it's expressed as negativity at first, maybe because they have a bigger audience at the tunnel. The people looking into the tunnel, while they flail around like a shot duck, and not just the other person they are doing a 2 way with, that might be traveling all over the sky in a sit position? crashtested posted a perfect example by saying, "I don't get the same satisfaction at the tunnel.. maybe there are just not enough girls hanging around looking for a hero!! How many of the girls at the DZ, that he trying to shag, are seeing he is a hero at 60 jumps? Instead he only has to prove he jumped from the plane and landed a parachute. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #14 January 6, 2008 Just so you know the shagging part was me being ironic.. (or was that iconic) I am a hero but that has nothing to do with skydiving (still ironic) I was talking to a v good formation jumper today about my wind tunnel lesson in sharper flying. why when i jump normally do i not notice body movement change, as in fall rate or tunrs etc We think that when i jump with him or other good jumpers they make the small corrections instincively so i don't have too?? making me look better than i am? No one likes to look bad though, learning over again is not an easy thing to do! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #15 January 6, 2008 Quote No one likes to look bad though, learning over again is not an easy thing to do! That's the great thing about sticking with skydiving, then, you've already learned it all. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stormywinters 1 #16 January 6, 2008 I don't think you are learning it again. You are getting a better understanding, and learning it is forever, especially body flight. Anyone who thinks they know the full math of bodyflight, still has alot to learn. If you want to be in any sport, do it for the fun. Some want to learn, some want to have fun, but we are all learning, but not all are having fun...... with "learning". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #17 January 6, 2008 Good point well made.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #18 January 7, 2008 I went up to Paraclete in Raeford, NC this Saturday and put in 10 minutes in the tunnel. For me, the two minute sessions didn't go by as fast as I thought. The first two minutes in the tunnel was a humble experience. It took those first two minutes to get comfortable. I have over an hour of free fall time so I know basically what I'm doing much more so than the usual public that visits a wind tunnel for fun once. When I got out I thought, damn. I thought I was good at this. Then when I went in for the next session I started nailing it. It was a complete 360 from the first session. By the 5th session I was surprising myself and a friend that was there instructing us in the tunnel. To me it was well worth the cost and I'm hoping to put in 20 more minutes next month. I feel like I learned more in that 10 minutes than I have in over a year of skydiving almost every single weekend.Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #19 January 9, 2008 Quote why when i jump normally do i not notice body movement change, as in fall rate or tunrs etc We think that when i jump with him or other good jumpers they make the small corrections instincively so i don't have too?? making me look better than i am? That's pretty much it right there. Its only when you get into the tunnel that you have every little positional error pointed out to you in spades. That's one reason why you learn quicker in the tunnel - the variable that is the other flier is taken out of the equation. So you can take it on board and start sharpening your skills... or you can just go back to flailing and relying on others... *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #20 January 9, 2008 Well the flailing does sound like fun... but i can't and don't rely on anyone else.... there goes another £300 to the wind tunnel fairys Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #21 January 10, 2008 Quote which i was not.. very strange seeing how bad a skydiver i am.............. ..... If i go back i then have to spend the time on my back hovering above the net for another £120 + and then maybe another £200 - £300 getting sit fly. .... Sooo the chalange was taken.. and I still don't get it. Just seems like a quick way to burn a shite load of money!!..... The skills of the instrucotrs though were amazing.. 55 real jumps and owning 4 dimensions!! gutting to watch You have kind of answered your own question. The instructors aren't necessarily all talented prodigies, tunnel time will get you like that. You have spent 120 quid - whats that these days, 4-5 jumps? and found you had some skills needed developing. You could probably have spent the rest of your jumping career never sorting those skills out (most tunnel rats have seen people with thousands of jumps who had some "odd" habits!) Having said that, if you find it boring, then thats a totally valid point and more power to you. I don't tend to stick with things that bore me! (i do miss my tunnel fix though!)Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #22 January 10, 2008 QuoteIts only when you get into the tunnel that you have every little positional error pointed out to you in spades. And you realize how bad you suck. I bet most people learn the most during that first 10-60 minutes in the tunnel. You can so easily fix the major problems in that amount of time. After that is probably where the real learning comes in - really learning something rather than fixing current problems. It makes you feel like you're in AFF all over again.Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #23 January 11, 2008 Quote Well the flailing does sound like fun... but i can't and don't rely on anyone else.... there goes another £300 to the wind tunnel fairys And cheap at half the price... With the weather we are having at the moment it's not like you are going skydiving anyway! So enjoy the tunnel, and do try bedford as well... *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #24 January 11, 2008 Quote And cheap at half the price... With the weather we are having at the moment it's not like you are going skydiving anyway! So enjoy the tunnel, and do try bedford as well... Half the price compared to a skydive, for coaching it is even more of a bargain. An hour coached with Babylon (all briefings included) costs £700 at their Bedford camps. Under £12 per minute with Babylon coaching included - just covering 2 slots will set you back £40 in the UK. Tunnel flying is difficult and it is expensive but I get to fly me up, down and all around; sometimes what I do is more of a pinball action than human flight but man it is a lot of fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #25 January 11, 2008 Off to Deland in florida on thursday for 4 days.... I looked out the window and realised that the weather in the uk is so crap.. and wind tunnels were not really my thing.. at £11 per jump deland is the awnser.. i have to make 35 jumps in 4 days to make it cost effective..... Awesome!!!! maybe unrealistic.. but awsome!!!! If i don't eat.. don't go to the toilet.. and have 2 rigs it won't be a problem rock on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
