Adriandavies 0 #51 December 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhile the sport is still relatively cheap FWIW on the topic of "saving the sport", I perceive a small surge in Canadian skydiver skills due to the stronger Canadian dollar as well as the recent emergence of a windtunnel within 5 hour drive of the Canadian border (Skyventure New Hampshire). The CDN dollar recently became more valuable than the U.S. dollar by a little and is now maintaining rough parity, and many of us Canadians taking advantage of the lower U.S. dollar to jump cheaper. In Canada, we pay $35 for Twin Otter jumps but we can do so at $20 (either USD or CAD) the states.... The same can be said of the UK if you take quality as a benchmark. Since Airkix and Bodyflight opened there has been a huge improvement in 4way FS scores. Freeflying also seems to have benefitted in terms of quality if Outbreak's recent silver medal is anything to go by. However I don't think that there has been a marked growth in the quantity of people taking up skydiving. Maybe time will tell and the teenagers who are trying tunnels today will take up skydiving over the next 5 years or so? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #52 January 13, 2008 I agree with you. The tunnel is a simulator, but not exactly. Flight simulators are computer simulators with simulated graphics. With a wind tunnel your actually in a real environment and you are using you body in a realistic situation. Tunnel training is very valuable. I could never have learned to fly my body at the level I do without tunnel training. I have 8000 jumps and I made my biggest gains in the last 200 jumps all with the many hours of tunnel flying I did with Tunnel Chaos (4way team). Jumping is important, but training in the tunnel then jumping made all the difference. Tunnel is responsible for the HUGE! increase in points that teams at all levels are turning now. Everything you can do in the tunnel is valuable for skydiving, from Aff students that are having a hard time, to pro skydivers. Ive seen tunnel rats do AFF in three jumps and their level 7 (jump 3) was a multi point skydive with two instructors. I know tunnel doesnt help with the canopy, but the tunnel rats I have seen do aff, picked up the canopy part at an accelerated rate also, I think it comes from comfort level, and a better understanding on how air works. Are wind tunnels saving the sport? Not exactly, but they are changing it. For the better. Id like to know how many people that just have tunnel experience, ended up learning to jump just because of their tunnel time. And if they would have jumped if they didnt go to the tunnel. I know some tunnel rats that started competing just because of their tunnel experience, this means more jumps overall at least. Blue SkiEs Ray Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HillerMyLife 0 #53 January 17, 2008 Altitude awareness is huge and I mean really huge. You will not learn that in the tunnel and thats pretty much non debatable. I started flying in the tunnel after my 3rd jump and have 2 times as much tunnel time as freefall time. I think the two mutually support eachother but obviously there was a day when it wasn't around and skydivers still progressed to great levels of skill. Personally I think its a great tool but there are some very distinct differences in the tunnel and the sky. For example something I'm dealing with at the moment is how easy it is to achieve forward drive in the tunnel(minus a rig) than in the sky(with a rig). The difference is night and day, for me at least. I had a friend who went to Iraq for 7 months when we had a similar number of jumps and skill. When he came back and found I was freeflying he wanted in too. 5 days and 45min later and boom, he was right there in the mix. That simply wasn't possible before the advent of tunnels. One comment in the article that really bothered me though was the Mom saying her kids had the equivelent of thousands of skydives and flew as good or better than instructors. If your parents are pumping up your ego by saying things like that(not saying all do) then I think most will recognize that as a possible recipe for trouble. Tunnel time is awesome and it has raised my level and my friends level of skill immensely but I'm sorry. 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day of tunnel does not equal even 1 skydive. I'm super excited about jumping with the kids that do go on to become skydivers(assuming I'm still around!) because it will be ushering in a new generation. As long as safety is still promoted as number 1 its all gonna be good.Someday Never Comes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #54 January 17, 2008 I agree that 1 minute of tunnel does not equal 1 skydive, but tunnel time is fly your body time. There is a girl in Colorado thats 15 and has never made a skydive, last I heard she was turning an 18.2 point average with 3 other (actual) skydivers. http://skyleague.com/pages/news/showArticles.php?story=903Does this make her better than her instructors? Not many instructors can come close to an 18 point average. So in basic body flight yes she is better than her instructor's. But no not even close in overall skydiving. She also was on a team of all non skydivers ag 12-14 and did a 14.8 average, and even turned a 21 point dive. Altitude awareness, USPA seems to think that can be taught in 7 skydives (well most people, some take more). But I agree it is important, but then again thats why we wear altimiters, not many jumpers with 50 jumps can determine pull altitude or close to it just from altitude awareness. Yes before tunnel skydivers did reach great levels of skill, only now they are doing it in Years (yes years) less time, and the bar has been raised to an extreme level because of the tunnel. Pre tunnel the top team was averaging 21 points and the thought was it wouldnt go much higher, now at the world level there is many teams averaging over 23 points, looking at scores from last year there was 12 (yes 12) teams averaging over the 20 pt mark and Airspeed scored a 26pt avg over 6 rounds. This would never have been possible without the tunnel. in 2005 the highest average was a 22 and only one team met that avg, and only 4 teams (NSL) hit the 20 pt mark. I think the tunnel is a valable tool for skydiving, as far as competition it is a required tool if you want to be competative. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HillerMyLife 0 #55 January 17, 2008 I think we essentially agree on all points. The tunnel is fly your body time no two ways about it. The tunnel has raised the bar in all levels of competition. With regards to anyone who can fly 18+ points in the tunnel when their instructors can only fly 17...in that strict regard yes they are better than their instructors simply on a numbers basis. I think altitude awareness is more than just building an internal clock and its more than just looking or listening to your altimeter. Its being aware at all points of the skydive from exit to breakoff to pull time, to turning onto final. That only happens with repeated good safe skydives...don't get me wrong I'm not claiming to be a master of AA but its importance cannot be understated. Not one of those aspects can be taught in a tunnel it simply isn't possible to train that in the tunnel. I love tunnel time but being that I'm primarily a skydiver it behooves me to spend time exiting aircarft doing things that aren't possible in the tunnel, ie 5+way freeflys,tracking jumps, and canopy skills to name a few. For me it is an environment to work on freefall skills but overall it can't replace the overall skydiving experience. Whether or not it ends up "saving" the sport will remain to be seen...Someday Never Comes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kirkverner 0 #56 January 19, 2008 I dont think skydiving needs to be "saved". However, after just watching Team Future and the Paraclete XP kids fly together in the tunnel it definitely shines a refreshing light on bodyflight. We give First Time Flyers a booklet with their flight certificate that explains what they can do next, a set of transitions to work on, information on the International Bodyflight Association, and a large section about USPA and skydiving. This gives each customer a physical product to take away so that we're just not another guy talking. While it may never truly get people into skydiving we are at least spreading information and marrying tunneling and skydiving. We'll keep you posted on our success rate. ParacleteXP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 20 #57 January 19, 2008 QuoteI dont think skydiving needs to be "saved". Well I don't either, but that's the worry from the skydiving industry at this time because of the decline. The industry has not figured out how to downsize gracefully." QuoteWe give First Time Flyers a booklet with their flight certificate that explains what they can do next, a set of transitions to work on, information on the International Bodyflight Association, and a large section about USPA and skydiving. This gives each customer a physical product to take away so that we're just not another guy talking. Yeh, and that's a simple marketing technique that many drop zones don't even do. Many just send their Tandem carnival ride customers away, without even a logbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UKFSChick 0 #58 January 20, 2008 Quote There is a girl in Colorado thats 15 and has never made a skydive, last I heard she was turning an 18.2 point average with 3 other (actual) skydivers. http://skyleague.com/...ticles.php?story=903 Actually she is 13... Quote Does this make her better than her instructors? Probably... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UKFSChick 0 #59 January 20, 2008 Quote obviously there was a day when it wasn't around and skydivers still progressed to great levels of skill That is very true, although, as Dutch said, Airspeed Odyssey have posted 25+ and 26 averages (even over ten rounds) in the last year. This massive leap coincides with the opening of 16 and 17 ft tunnels, where teams can train the whole dive pool rather than just randoms and some of the tighter blocks. Quote something I'm dealing with at the moment is how easy it is to achieve forward drive in the tunnel(minus a rig) than in the sky(with a rig). The difference is night and day, for me at least. It is very different without a rig, I agree. You are much less restricted, with better visibility, less drag in certain positions, less weight to move around, less momentum and increased flexibility. A rig can really affect your body position without you realising. One solution I tried was to buy a rig wrap from Rigging Innovations (Skydive Arizona) which lets you train in the tunnel with your own rig on. At some tunnels (eg Bodyflight) you can also use their specially made tunnel rigs for a similar effect. Many teams are already doing this and this has probably contributed to increased performance levels. There is no reason newer jumpers shouldn't also be able to benefit from this more realistic simulation of freefall. I think it is possible for some people to improve their body flying skills more in 1 minute of tunnel flying than in 1 skydive, if they have a good coach in there with them. The tunnel allows people to learn in a relaxed environment without the distraction of a planet coming up at them at 120mph. From a safety perspective, there is no substitute for skydiving, but having better skills and being more relaxed in the airflow also helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hparrish 0 #60 January 20, 2008 Can you PM the URL for this "Rig Wrap", you mention. I'm very interested in learning more about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #61 January 20, 2008 QuoteCan you PM the URL for this "Rig Wrap", you mention. I'm very interested in learning more about it. I dont think its on their website, but basically, its a cover that goes around your container, making any accidental opening in the tunnel a minor issue.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites djd 0 #62 January 21, 2008 Quote making any accidental opening in the tunnel a minor issue.....LOL just a play on words but A minor issue......its there to stop an opening Absolute... I think we would shit a brick if anything even looked like it had opened inside a wrapped up rig.... how ever i have seen them on fast trax and on airspeed's rigs and they do look pretty good and cover all the base's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UKFSChick 0 #63 January 21, 2008 www.rigginginnovations.com I don't think there is anything on their site about the rig wraps, but if you call them up or email they should be able to help you. I think it would be Brenda or Sandy. We were very happy with ours and they have been approved for use at SkyVenture AZ and Bodyflight - I don't know about other tunnels. Unfortunately, tunnel flying with a rig on is much more tiring than without! We were stunned at what a difference it makes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dazzle 0 #64 January 21, 2008 We were really happy with ours. Made tunnel training much more realistic, as well as a lot more physically demanding. It also made going in the tunnel much nicer once we'd taken the rigs offPics attached. In case the closure isn't clear, the 4 flaps velcro against the backpad, sides first then bottom and top. The velcro is all wide (2 inches) and attaches very securely. When worn all the velcro is held against the back, the exposed side of the rig has no seams / edges to start un-peeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hparrish 0 #65 January 22, 2008 Thank You very much. So they are manufacturer specific then....I guess I'll call Mirage to see if they make one. Appreciate the link and the pictures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #66 January 22, 2008 Doesn't appear to be manufacturer specific. That one seems to be on a Wings, and I think it has been said Airspeed and FastTrax used RI's product, and IIRC Airspeed jumps Javlins, while I think FastTrax switched to Vectors. IMO letting ANY rig with real canopies into a tunnel is asking for eventual disaster. I've never seen it done.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites djd 0 #67 January 22, 2008 Quote IMO letting ANY rig with real canopies into a tunnel is asking for eventual disaster. I've never seen it done. I would have to say i agree but there are arguments for and against..... We only let people we know use this type of stuff in our tunnel. Teams that go to the effort of organizing rig wraps for the tunnel (That i have encountered so far) are pure professionals, dedicated 4 way teams that are on the top of the pile in which ever country they are coming from. (and there arnt many teams using them) I think all teams i have encountered so far Represent their countries have sponsorship and are always aware of the public image they are giving out... In short Professional. They are aware these are not play things that just add to the excitement of tunnel flying, its harder work for starters. They tend to just put the rigs on go to work doing there thing, take the rigs off and have some fun, there is no freeflying or messing around whilst they have there tunnel rigs on. On a Business side it makes sense to let the top teams use them. If yr tunnel lets them and other tunnels dont then you will get the trade, after all, while we all love flying and enjoy what we do its just a business after all. Can i add.. .. just because a team turn up with rig wraps doesnt mean we are going to let them fly with them. well not on my shift anyway....lol On the safety side, yes i agree putting anything in the chamber that can come off is a no no.... I flew a man holding a 35mm camera the other day worth quarter of a million pound (thats half a million dollars) the lens alone was 30 thousand pound....for a test screening... Risk versus reward i say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dazzle 0 #68 January 22, 2008 QuoteThank You very much. So they are manufacturer specific then....I guess I'll call Mirage to see if they make one. Appreciate the link and the pictures. RI made our wraps for all of our rigs - 2 Wings, Jav, Infinity. They were (April 07) just getting started with making them so we left our rigs with them for 1/2 a day during our off day on the training camp (Eloy) while they took the measurements. At the time they were getting started with them and building up a database of rig sizes but still needed the actual rigs to make them. They may have more experience now and be able to do them with just the container size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UKFSChick 0 #69 January 23, 2008 We have Javs. RI went out of their way to ensure they had the correct measurements including liaising direct with Sunpath. Sunpath were very helpful, bearing in mind this was a sponsor deal with them at the time. I think the wraps are incredibly secure-looking and would not even contemplate using one unless they were top-notch and had been approved for use by the relevant tunnel. Elan had them, AZ Directe have them, Airspeed also use them AFAIK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Rdutch 0 #52 January 13, 2008 I agree with you. The tunnel is a simulator, but not exactly. Flight simulators are computer simulators with simulated graphics. With a wind tunnel your actually in a real environment and you are using you body in a realistic situation. Tunnel training is very valuable. I could never have learned to fly my body at the level I do without tunnel training. I have 8000 jumps and I made my biggest gains in the last 200 jumps all with the many hours of tunnel flying I did with Tunnel Chaos (4way team). Jumping is important, but training in the tunnel then jumping made all the difference. Tunnel is responsible for the HUGE! increase in points that teams at all levels are turning now. Everything you can do in the tunnel is valuable for skydiving, from Aff students that are having a hard time, to pro skydivers. Ive seen tunnel rats do AFF in three jumps and their level 7 (jump 3) was a multi point skydive with two instructors. I know tunnel doesnt help with the canopy, but the tunnel rats I have seen do aff, picked up the canopy part at an accelerated rate also, I think it comes from comfort level, and a better understanding on how air works. Are wind tunnels saving the sport? Not exactly, but they are changing it. For the better. Id like to know how many people that just have tunnel experience, ended up learning to jump just because of their tunnel time. And if they would have jumped if they didnt go to the tunnel. I know some tunnel rats that started competing just because of their tunnel experience, this means more jumps overall at least. Blue SkiEs Ray Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HillerMyLife 0 #53 January 17, 2008 Altitude awareness is huge and I mean really huge. You will not learn that in the tunnel and thats pretty much non debatable. I started flying in the tunnel after my 3rd jump and have 2 times as much tunnel time as freefall time. I think the two mutually support eachother but obviously there was a day when it wasn't around and skydivers still progressed to great levels of skill. Personally I think its a great tool but there are some very distinct differences in the tunnel and the sky. For example something I'm dealing with at the moment is how easy it is to achieve forward drive in the tunnel(minus a rig) than in the sky(with a rig). The difference is night and day, for me at least. I had a friend who went to Iraq for 7 months when we had a similar number of jumps and skill. When he came back and found I was freeflying he wanted in too. 5 days and 45min later and boom, he was right there in the mix. That simply wasn't possible before the advent of tunnels. One comment in the article that really bothered me though was the Mom saying her kids had the equivelent of thousands of skydives and flew as good or better than instructors. If your parents are pumping up your ego by saying things like that(not saying all do) then I think most will recognize that as a possible recipe for trouble. Tunnel time is awesome and it has raised my level and my friends level of skill immensely but I'm sorry. 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day of tunnel does not equal even 1 skydive. I'm super excited about jumping with the kids that do go on to become skydivers(assuming I'm still around!) because it will be ushering in a new generation. As long as safety is still promoted as number 1 its all gonna be good.Someday Never Comes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #54 January 17, 2008 I agree that 1 minute of tunnel does not equal 1 skydive, but tunnel time is fly your body time. There is a girl in Colorado thats 15 and has never made a skydive, last I heard she was turning an 18.2 point average with 3 other (actual) skydivers. http://skyleague.com/pages/news/showArticles.php?story=903Does this make her better than her instructors? Not many instructors can come close to an 18 point average. So in basic body flight yes she is better than her instructor's. But no not even close in overall skydiving. She also was on a team of all non skydivers ag 12-14 and did a 14.8 average, and even turned a 21 point dive. Altitude awareness, USPA seems to think that can be taught in 7 skydives (well most people, some take more). But I agree it is important, but then again thats why we wear altimiters, not many jumpers with 50 jumps can determine pull altitude or close to it just from altitude awareness. Yes before tunnel skydivers did reach great levels of skill, only now they are doing it in Years (yes years) less time, and the bar has been raised to an extreme level because of the tunnel. Pre tunnel the top team was averaging 21 points and the thought was it wouldnt go much higher, now at the world level there is many teams averaging over 23 points, looking at scores from last year there was 12 (yes 12) teams averaging over the 20 pt mark and Airspeed scored a 26pt avg over 6 rounds. This would never have been possible without the tunnel. in 2005 the highest average was a 22 and only one team met that avg, and only 4 teams (NSL) hit the 20 pt mark. I think the tunnel is a valable tool for skydiving, as far as competition it is a required tool if you want to be competative. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HillerMyLife 0 #55 January 17, 2008 I think we essentially agree on all points. The tunnel is fly your body time no two ways about it. The tunnel has raised the bar in all levels of competition. With regards to anyone who can fly 18+ points in the tunnel when their instructors can only fly 17...in that strict regard yes they are better than their instructors simply on a numbers basis. I think altitude awareness is more than just building an internal clock and its more than just looking or listening to your altimeter. Its being aware at all points of the skydive from exit to breakoff to pull time, to turning onto final. That only happens with repeated good safe skydives...don't get me wrong I'm not claiming to be a master of AA but its importance cannot be understated. Not one of those aspects can be taught in a tunnel it simply isn't possible to train that in the tunnel. I love tunnel time but being that I'm primarily a skydiver it behooves me to spend time exiting aircarft doing things that aren't possible in the tunnel, ie 5+way freeflys,tracking jumps, and canopy skills to name a few. For me it is an environment to work on freefall skills but overall it can't replace the overall skydiving experience. Whether or not it ends up "saving" the sport will remain to be seen...Someday Never Comes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirkverner 0 #56 January 19, 2008 I dont think skydiving needs to be "saved". However, after just watching Team Future and the Paraclete XP kids fly together in the tunnel it definitely shines a refreshing light on bodyflight. We give First Time Flyers a booklet with their flight certificate that explains what they can do next, a set of transitions to work on, information on the International Bodyflight Association, and a large section about USPA and skydiving. This gives each customer a physical product to take away so that we're just not another guy talking. While it may never truly get people into skydiving we are at least spreading information and marrying tunneling and skydiving. We'll keep you posted on our success rate. ParacleteXP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #57 January 19, 2008 QuoteI dont think skydiving needs to be "saved". Well I don't either, but that's the worry from the skydiving industry at this time because of the decline. The industry has not figured out how to downsize gracefully." QuoteWe give First Time Flyers a booklet with their flight certificate that explains what they can do next, a set of transitions to work on, information on the International Bodyflight Association, and a large section about USPA and skydiving. This gives each customer a physical product to take away so that we're just not another guy talking. Yeh, and that's a simple marketing technique that many drop zones don't even do. Many just send their Tandem carnival ride customers away, without even a logbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKFSChick 0 #58 January 20, 2008 Quote There is a girl in Colorado thats 15 and has never made a skydive, last I heard she was turning an 18.2 point average with 3 other (actual) skydivers. http://skyleague.com/...ticles.php?story=903 Actually she is 13... Quote Does this make her better than her instructors? Probably... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKFSChick 0 #59 January 20, 2008 Quote obviously there was a day when it wasn't around and skydivers still progressed to great levels of skill That is very true, although, as Dutch said, Airspeed Odyssey have posted 25+ and 26 averages (even over ten rounds) in the last year. This massive leap coincides with the opening of 16 and 17 ft tunnels, where teams can train the whole dive pool rather than just randoms and some of the tighter blocks. Quote something I'm dealing with at the moment is how easy it is to achieve forward drive in the tunnel(minus a rig) than in the sky(with a rig). The difference is night and day, for me at least. It is very different without a rig, I agree. You are much less restricted, with better visibility, less drag in certain positions, less weight to move around, less momentum and increased flexibility. A rig can really affect your body position without you realising. One solution I tried was to buy a rig wrap from Rigging Innovations (Skydive Arizona) which lets you train in the tunnel with your own rig on. At some tunnels (eg Bodyflight) you can also use their specially made tunnel rigs for a similar effect. Many teams are already doing this and this has probably contributed to increased performance levels. There is no reason newer jumpers shouldn't also be able to benefit from this more realistic simulation of freefall. I think it is possible for some people to improve their body flying skills more in 1 minute of tunnel flying than in 1 skydive, if they have a good coach in there with them. The tunnel allows people to learn in a relaxed environment without the distraction of a planet coming up at them at 120mph. From a safety perspective, there is no substitute for skydiving, but having better skills and being more relaxed in the airflow also helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #60 January 20, 2008 Can you PM the URL for this "Rig Wrap", you mention. I'm very interested in learning more about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #61 January 20, 2008 QuoteCan you PM the URL for this "Rig Wrap", you mention. I'm very interested in learning more about it. I dont think its on their website, but basically, its a cover that goes around your container, making any accidental opening in the tunnel a minor issue.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djd 0 #62 January 21, 2008 Quote making any accidental opening in the tunnel a minor issue.....LOL just a play on words but A minor issue......its there to stop an opening Absolute... I think we would shit a brick if anything even looked like it had opened inside a wrapped up rig.... how ever i have seen them on fast trax and on airspeed's rigs and they do look pretty good and cover all the base's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKFSChick 0 #63 January 21, 2008 www.rigginginnovations.com I don't think there is anything on their site about the rig wraps, but if you call them up or email they should be able to help you. I think it would be Brenda or Sandy. We were very happy with ours and they have been approved for use at SkyVenture AZ and Bodyflight - I don't know about other tunnels. Unfortunately, tunnel flying with a rig on is much more tiring than without! We were stunned at what a difference it makes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzle 0 #64 January 21, 2008 We were really happy with ours. Made tunnel training much more realistic, as well as a lot more physically demanding. It also made going in the tunnel much nicer once we'd taken the rigs offPics attached. In case the closure isn't clear, the 4 flaps velcro against the backpad, sides first then bottom and top. The velcro is all wide (2 inches) and attaches very securely. When worn all the velcro is held against the back, the exposed side of the rig has no seams / edges to start un-peeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #65 January 22, 2008 Thank You very much. So they are manufacturer specific then....I guess I'll call Mirage to see if they make one. Appreciate the link and the pictures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #66 January 22, 2008 Doesn't appear to be manufacturer specific. That one seems to be on a Wings, and I think it has been said Airspeed and FastTrax used RI's product, and IIRC Airspeed jumps Javlins, while I think FastTrax switched to Vectors. IMO letting ANY rig with real canopies into a tunnel is asking for eventual disaster. I've never seen it done.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djd 0 #67 January 22, 2008 Quote IMO letting ANY rig with real canopies into a tunnel is asking for eventual disaster. I've never seen it done. I would have to say i agree but there are arguments for and against..... We only let people we know use this type of stuff in our tunnel. Teams that go to the effort of organizing rig wraps for the tunnel (That i have encountered so far) are pure professionals, dedicated 4 way teams that are on the top of the pile in which ever country they are coming from. (and there arnt many teams using them) I think all teams i have encountered so far Represent their countries have sponsorship and are always aware of the public image they are giving out... In short Professional. They are aware these are not play things that just add to the excitement of tunnel flying, its harder work for starters. They tend to just put the rigs on go to work doing there thing, take the rigs off and have some fun, there is no freeflying or messing around whilst they have there tunnel rigs on. On a Business side it makes sense to let the top teams use them. If yr tunnel lets them and other tunnels dont then you will get the trade, after all, while we all love flying and enjoy what we do its just a business after all. Can i add.. .. just because a team turn up with rig wraps doesnt mean we are going to let them fly with them. well not on my shift anyway....lol On the safety side, yes i agree putting anything in the chamber that can come off is a no no.... I flew a man holding a 35mm camera the other day worth quarter of a million pound (thats half a million dollars) the lens alone was 30 thousand pound....for a test screening... Risk versus reward i say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzle 0 #68 January 22, 2008 QuoteThank You very much. So they are manufacturer specific then....I guess I'll call Mirage to see if they make one. Appreciate the link and the pictures. RI made our wraps for all of our rigs - 2 Wings, Jav, Infinity. They were (April 07) just getting started with making them so we left our rigs with them for 1/2 a day during our off day on the training camp (Eloy) while they took the measurements. At the time they were getting started with them and building up a database of rig sizes but still needed the actual rigs to make them. They may have more experience now and be able to do them with just the container size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKFSChick 0 #69 January 23, 2008 We have Javs. RI went out of their way to ensure they had the correct measurements including liaising direct with Sunpath. Sunpath were very helpful, bearing in mind this was a sponsor deal with them at the time. I think the wraps are incredibly secure-looking and would not even contemplate using one unless they were top-notch and had been approved for use by the relevant tunnel. Elan had them, AZ Directe have them, Airspeed also use them AFAIK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
