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Andy9o8

DZ.com Wind Tunnel Locator?

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It would be great to have a wind tunnel locator on DZ.com like its current DZ locator. The best things about it would be:

- centralized location just like the DZ locator - no cumbersome Google searches with iffy results.
- it would be more up-to date, so recently-opened tunnels wouldn't be skipped.
- it would only list operational tunnels (or ones truly under active construction), eliminating all the hyped-up "phantom" tunnels that exist only in investors' press releases.
- it would be more or less "neutral" - it would not be a site run by anyone with a commercial agenda, so it wouldn't be biased toward listing only "allies" or omitting "competitors".

(There are a couple of so-called "directory" sites - one popular one in particular - that seem to have some glaring "gaps". This would go a long way toward curing that.)

Edit - Moderators - this might be better in the "Suggestions and Feedback" forum. If you feel it fits better there, please move it.

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(There are a couple of so-called "directory" sites - one popular one in particular - that seem to have some glaring "gaps". This would go a long way toward curing that.)



I assume that you're talking about bodyflight.net.

What gaps do you see? What additional things are you looking for in a tunnel locator? Ratings perhaps?

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Your assumption is just an assumption; there are various sites in existence. I'm focusing principally on the benefit of having a locator on DZ.com.

By "gaps" I'm referring to the lack of a reference to certain tunnels that are operational, as if they don't exist.

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Disclaimer: This is NOT an advertisement

I'll just pop in on this one, I don't know about "other" directory sites, I only know about mine. Unfortunately, and perhaps to someone's disbelief, I dont' have the authority (even though it's my site) to list businesses and information without their consent. I used to list everyone, even against their will.

As far as "gaps" go... since the big OUTCRY in 2002 we changed our submission policy and invite all and any tunnels to list their facilities, photos & more at no cost to them. All we need is an owner or employee to let us know they want to participate and give us some info.

Within the last week we've gotten submissions for www.Aironex.com and for www.paracletexp.com to be added, and they are schedule for my next round of updates. And while we are sometimes a couple of weeks behind in our updates, I should hope that for a completely free site, that I update personally, that should be ok.

After 9 years of running the site, I can safely say, this way is a better method of inclusion... voluntary.

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I dont' have the authority (even though it's my site) to list businesses and information without their consent.



Disclaimer: This is NOT legal advice.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you do, provided that all you're doing is maintaining a database of tunnels that happen to exist. If a certain tunnel holds itself out to the public, then the mere fact of its existence is in the public domain, and is not proprietary; and thus, that fact may be publicly reported by anyone. (The "reporter" would be prudent to make sure that no copyrighted material is improperly used.)

The wrinkle that affects you is, as I understand (correct me if I'm totally wrong), that there are some tunnels actually owned and/or operated by Bodyflight (or its subsidiaries, or franchisees, whatever...). If that is the case, then I suppose that if a certain tunnel was listed on Bodyflight.net's site without permission, they might try to claim that the listing falsely implies to the public that it is affiliated with Bodyflight. And of course, standing on your rights could cost you a lot in legal fees if someone decides to sue you, even if you win, so I can understand your choosing not to list without permission. But I do think it's more of a choice than a requirement.

However, I don't see DZ.com as having that same potential risk with a tunnel locator, any more than it does with its existing DZ locator. All the more reason why it's a good idea.

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After 9 years of running the site, I can safely say, this way is a better method of inclusion... voluntary.



As I said, it may very well be better for you, given your existing business model. But with DZ.com, it would be no different than any other of the multitudes of "directories" that simply gather and publish information about existing businesses.

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Actually, I'm pretty sure you do, provided that all you're doing is maintaining a database of tunnels that happen to exist. If a certain tunnel holds itself out to the public, then the mere fact of its existence is in the public domain, and is not proprietary; and thus, that fact may be publicly reported by anyone. (The "reporter" would be prudent to make sure that no copyrighted material is improperly used.)



If you hadn't noticed on my site, I have asked for help, but I don't often get it. I of course don't expect you to know the fine details of owning such a site or the love hate relationship one can have with 400 pages of madness, but generally, most tunnel owners prefer to have some say so over what is published about their businesses and what is not. Much like today's newspaper models, there are always angry people who want to challenge or correct any information I publish. Unlike most of today's newspapers, I am not a newspaper and don't have the capital or manpower to stand up to them. In the end, I stand by my compromise of free & optional inclusion, it couldn't be easier. Now days, the site is a complete list of cooperative tunnels interested in the current tunnelflyer community world wide. If they don't want to even say HI to the several hundred members of our site, who am I to say they should have to?

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The wrinkle that affects you is, as I understand (correct me if I'm totally wrong), that there are some tunnels actually owned and/or operated by Bodyflight (or its subsidiaries, or franchisees, whatever...). If that is the case, then I suppose that if a certain tunnel was listed on Bodyflight.net's site without permission, they might try to claim that the listing falsely implies to the public that it is affiliated with Bodyflight. And of course, standing on your rights could cost you a lot in legal fees if someone decides to sue you, even if you win, so I can understand your choosing not to list without permission. But I do think it's more of a choice than a requirement.



Bodyflight is a life changing sport to me, not some kind of corporate name. I own nothing VWT related but a website, and over a decade of experience. My husband owns nothing but his experiences. I built the website years ago so my tunnel flying friends and I could stay in touch and keep up with eachother because we're scattered globally. I used to use the site to work out programming issues for my webdesign business, and then slowly it turned into what it is now. I'm fairly certain that all but a couple of recent tunnels ARE on the site, so I figure if there are any gaps, it's only in the tunnels advertising program.

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However, I don't see DZ.com as having that same potential risk with a tunnel locator, any more than it does with its existing DZ locator. All the more reason why it's a good idea.



But, here you go.. here's the link for the DZ.com Tunnel Locater, as you can see, DZ.com gets even LESS assistance than I get. And the links are free here too, plus HH actually has a team of people to help and an editior assigned to the category. http://www.dropzone.com/links/Training_and_Coaching/Wind_Tunnels/index.html
or you can go to http://www.dropzone.com/links/ and click WIND TUNNELS.

Anyway, I hope that helps you understand perhaps a bit more about what might go into the process, and that not everything is as it might appear.

:)

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Dawn, let my try to put a cap on this, as this is rapidly becoming a Bodyflight.net thread, and that wasn't my intention at all; quite the opposite, in fact. I'm not challenging any other site; I'm suggesting an enhancement for DZ.com.

My intent was simply to suggest DZ.com have a "Tunnel Locator database" in similar format, and with similar search features, as its current DZ locator database. Currently, it does not. Yes, there are other sites, yours included, but I haven't found any with the same format and features as DZ.com's Dropzone database. Just as they teach in Business 101, I identified what I thought was a need that was not yet fully filled in the public marketplace, and suggested a way that DZ.com might fill it. Nothing more; nothing less.

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Bodyflight is .... not some kind of corporate name. I own nothing VWT related but a website, and over a decade of experience. My husband owns nothing but his experiences.



Well, that's fine. I was simply noting that I understood why you chose to only post voluntary submissions. Whatever affiliations you do or do not have, I note that there are several businesses whose trade names begin with the word "Bodyflight", some are tunnels and some are not, so it's understandable that someone might get the impression (whether accurate or not) that there was some sort of connection, affiliation, whatever, among them, and with your site - and on that basis, find an excuse, even if not fully grounded, to hassle you if you listed their business on your site without their permission. That's all.

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But, here you go.. here's the link for the DZ.com Tunnel Locater, as you can see, DZ.com gets even LESS assistance than I get. And the links are free here too, plus HH actually has a team of people to help and an editior assigned to the category. http://www.dropzone.com/...d_Tunnels/index.html
or you can go to http://www.dropzone.com/links/ and click WIND TUNNELS.



No, it's not a "DZ.com Tunnel Locator"; there currently is no such thing, and that's my point. It's not a broad, searchable database; currently, it's basically just a list of 8 website links, not all of which are even actual tunnels; and while there is a bare-bones rating and review function, it's not by any means a "Tunnel database" with the kind of coverage and search features that DZ.com's existing "Dropzone database" has. And that, simply, is my point - nothing more, nothing less.

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Well maybe DZ.com will fall in line with godfather of bodyflight websites. Dawn I think that you do an awesome job with the site and I pretty much have the idea that you are a one woman show unlike other sites. Your site is an amazing tool that has followed the sport of bodyflight. I send foreign people to your site that show up at my tunnel all of the time so that they can find tunnels in other parts of the world. So,.. thanks for all your hard work and thanks for having the insight to help the sport of bodyflight evolve by providing an awesome informational site.
Blue Skies!

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The OP crossposted this topic in the Suggestions and Feedback Forum, thinking it would be a more appropriate fit there. He linked back to this already developing conversation. I'm goin to lock this one up so we can continue the conversation in Suggestions & Feedback:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3028040;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;
Arrive Safely

John

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