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SlashDog

Proper hip position in basic arch

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Hi,

I would like to know what the proper position of the pelivis is in the belly-flying arch position. Let me describe the two positions I am considering. In both of these positions the shoulders are back and the knees are higher than the hips:

#1 Pelvis Tilted Forward.... if you were arched and standing up and the pelvis were a bowl of water, the water would be pouring over the front of the bowl. This is arching in the lower back. Think of reaching with the small of the back towards the earth.

#2 Pelvis tucked... rather than arching the lower back, the pelvis is tucked under like a dog with it's tail between it's legs, so the butt is a little tighter. The hips are still thrust forward and the body is fully arched. Think of reaching more with the hip joints towards the earth.

I hope those descriptions make sense. I am asking because I have been sore in the lower back and I am wondering if I need to modify my arch. I am very flexible and athletic. I can bend backwards in the limbo position until I am only inches from the ground. I don''t want to wind up doing something that hurts me in the long run. I know the soreness could be my landings but I usually land pretty gently.

Any feedback?

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Maybe you are asking the wrong question here. I’ll relate what one experienced skydiver told me when I had about 50 jumps. “Nice AFF arch, now stop it!”

With your descriptions it is hard to tell but maybe the proper question is why are you having to arch so much? Is your jumpsuit appropriate? Is this just in the tunnel or in the air too? What do the people you are jumping with weigh and what types of jumpsuits are they wearing? Should they be wearing weights when they jump with you? What are you doing with your arms and legs.

Looking at your profile it looks like you are 210+ out the door. That puts you on the heavy end for a skydiver. I’m surprised you are having to arch at all. I’d think you would spend most of a routine dive pretty flat.

Give us a little more info.
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

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Well, you asked this question in the Wind Tunnel forum, but then you talk about "I generally land gently". Well, I would certainly hope so, if you are talking about tunnel flying...

You asked about "basic arch position" - I would have to say that "basic arch position" is hips forward, so that your entire body forms a continuous arch, without a "bump" in the arch where your butt sticks up. For many fliers, the "butt up" shape is better described as knees low, and it often is as a result of flying with your legs too wide. In rereading your post, however, I'm not sure I am envisioning #2 correctly - I have a hard time picturing a "full arch" with the "pelvis tucked"

Once you have a "basic arch", then you can control your fall rate by increasing how hard you arch - the more the curve of your body, the faster you will fall. If you decrease the curve, you will slow down. If you start sticking your butt up, you will slow down even more, and you will be less stable, because you just moved your center of gravity up relative to where the air is supporting you.

It is really hard to diagnose the discomfort you are feeling, however, with the minimal information provided so far. The biggest thing that you can probably do, however, is RELAX! If you are straining back muscles, then you are most likely way too tense. Relaxing will both reduce your physical stress & strain, as well as just making the whole experience a whole lot more fun!

BTW, these answers are generally applicable to both tunnel flying and skydiving.

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Quote

I am asking because I have been sore in the lower back and I am wondering if I need to modify my arch. I am very flexible and athletic.



Get a good coach. From your descriptions, we can all guess at what you are asking, but it will be best diagnosed by a coach who see's you fly and who can work with you.

You use very different muscles when tunnel flying. It's at least doubling the time you spend in an arch (if not more). Your body isn't used to that, give it more tunnel time and stretching. You'll be fine ;)
Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

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I definitely think relaxing is a good idea and I will remember that. I jump with all kinds of different folks from lightweight to a super heavyweight guys who wears a tandem rig because his exit weight is like 300.

All the feedback has been good. but from the ambiguity of the answers with regards to pelvic tilt I am guessing this is a technique distinction not made by the skydiving community in general. I will be gettting some coaching in z-hills soon and I will explore this issue with my coach there.

Thanks folks. I truly appreciate the feedback! B|

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I'm afraid both of your descriptions sound like the same thing to me. But here's another description that might help:

Knees are close together (closer than most people think), I like to be able to feel the inside grippers sometimes brushing each other. A good drill is to fly with your legs completely together.

Both the hip bones and the pubic bone are pushed down. Butt AND lower back are flexed.

If you're on your girlfriend and she asks you for an extra inch, give her 3. That is a good position.

Keeping the knees narrow and the chin high helps too. Most people have the knees too wide to facilitate a good clean arch. (As noted by another above)

The coach will get you there. (go do a search in the RW forum on proper mantis position - Ron has a good description and sometimes there's pictures from others.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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