UntamedDOG 0 #1 December 14, 2005 Everywhere I look, it seems like wind tunnels are popping up everywhere. First it was Orlando, then Perris, then Eloy and now Colorado. SkyVenture is making a killing selling these behemothic contraptions. The funniest thing about SkyVenture is that they end up charging an extra million dollars to finish the wind tunnels that they designed themselves! Just ask Melanie Conatser at Perris Valley. I’m surprised they didn’t sue SkyVenture for making them pay so much extra to finish their wind tunnel. Some would call this business practice premeditated extortion. Sure, we all ran out and rented that movie “CutAway” where Stephen Baldwin uses that secret wind tunnel to get an edge on his competitors. We all thought, “Damn, I want to try one of those”. Now that almost everyone at Perris has, it isn’t such a big deal anymore to have access to one. Perhaps the novelty aspect is beginning to wear thin. I predict that wind tunnels will eventually fade from our sport. Like any fad, they need a good business model to keep the interest alive. Why doesn’t anyone outside our sport know about wind tunnels? Who is handling the PR for SkyVenture? Why aren’t we using these wind tunnels to attract new skydivers? UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dvdcoon 0 #2 December 14, 2005 What is wrong with wind tunnels in the first place? They help people freefall better. It's fun. It makes money. Why are you bashing it? I think it will last longer than skydiving. How much gas does it use up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #3 December 14, 2005 You have to look at each tunnel individually to decide who they are trying to cater to. Orlando and Colorado are both in tourist country so advertising will cater to those coming to to visit Disney World or going skiing. Perris Valley and Eloy were both built on large DZs and appear to be geared more towards the skydivers who come there to train and do 4/8/bigway camps. All four though will show anyone skydiver or non-skydiver a good time.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #4 December 14, 2005 QuoteHow much gas does it use up? Apparently quite a bit indirectly. I have heard that the electric bills run $15k+ per month which equates to around 168 Otter loads. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #5 December 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow much gas does it use up? Apparently quite a bit indirectly. I have heard that the electric bills run $15k+ per month which equates to around 168 Otter loads. I wonder what the average budget is for a wind tunnel... if the price averages $15 per minute and the tunnel's open 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and is fully booked, you're looking at about $320,000 in revenue... Not a bad haul, but then, what are the expenses?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #6 December 14, 2005 Quote What is wrong with wind tunnels in the first place? They help people freefall better. It's fun. It makes money. Why are you bashing it? I think it will last longer than skydiving. How much gas does it use up? 550 KWH I saw once on a control screen on a tunnel while operating. At .10 per KWH, $55 an hour... That is not to say the panel I was reading was calibrated accurately or that I was trained to read it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 December 14, 2005 News flash. The SkyVenture wind tunnel model/prototype was not designed with skydiving as it's primary source of business. Wuffos are FAR more profitable. It's highly ego-centric to believe that Skydiving will be the life or death of the SkyVenture wind tunnel.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #8 December 14, 2005 >I predict that wind tunnels will eventually fade from our sport. I think you're right. As happened with 4-way, super otters, freeflying and beer, skydivers will soon sicken of the novelty and move on to something far more interesting, like bungee jumping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #9 December 14, 2005 Some people don't get it.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #10 December 14, 2005 Untamed, Quote Why doesn’t anyone outside our sport know about wind tunnels? Who is handling the PR for SkyVenture? Why aren’t we using these wind tunnels to attract new skydivers? I hear the next batch of skyventure tunnels that have or are going to break ground are smaller, designed for non-skydivers, like the one at Universal City Walk.... I think these will help our sport. QuotePerhaps the novelty aspect is beginning to wear thin. While the rest of the country looks at those at Perris and Eloy as being world class skydivers because they have had the opportunity to train... Some of the stuff I saw the intermediate tunnel league folks do at Perris is more advanced than what most of the rest of the country could do... If the novelty is wearing off at Perris (and I don't know since I am not there, and I have found you often act as the devils advocate so I don't believe ya at face value) then all I have to say is, you guys don't know how lucky you are, and don't appreciate what a tunnel can do for skills. A top notch well known coach at Perris told me, "I would not be in skydiving today coaching if the tunnel did not exist. The 4 way you just did on your 55th jump ever was better than what I was able to do with 500 jumps without the tunnel. The tunnel gave me the tools and passion to continue." So, dog, I know you like to raise controversy, so I almost am hesitant to play along... But you have a good point, the market is getting saturated. The question is, will the skyventure branding/franchising keep the market prices high, or will the independent owners feel the pinch of the competitive economy as more tunnels open and reduce the price of time... It is a catch 22... The operators need the $$$ to stay open and pay for the huge expense of building the tunnels, and if prices come down less new tunnels will open and skydiving will not improve... But, with cheaper prices, more skydivers can afford the training time and volume will go up. I have some bets with friends about where the tunnel economy will go in the next few years... I am not going to post it, but ask me in a few years if I am right or wrong... Or it could be worse... They could call the tunnel a "Wuffo factory" as some DZs are "tandem factories".... Too many non-skydivers and we will lose our time to the birthday parties... Thank god some tunnels will remain skydiver friendly at DZs and others will open at tourist traps. T Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #11 December 14, 2005 Well, come on down to Texas and look; maybe one will pop up when you do! We've been waiting for one to get started for over a year over near NASA, and it seems like I read recently of another in the Houston area that made plans but never broke ground. BIG demand for them here! Just wish it would be more centrally located. I went to Skyventure at Perris to get a serious problem worked out. If it hadn't been for the tunnel and Ed Dickinson, I would've had to give up on the sport I think.Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicGuy 0 #12 December 14, 2005 QuoteEverywhere I look, it seems like wind tunnels are popping up everywhere. First it was Orlando, then Perris, then Eloy and now Colorado. What about Flyaway Indoor Skydiving in Las Vegas? I never see this mentioned in Wind Tunnel threads - is it not considered to be one? Sorry to break topic. Just so I can somewhat stay on key here, I think these will be around for a while. People that don't have the balls to make a real jump are far more likely to give this a try. The closest thing to human flight.. besides actual skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #13 December 14, 2005 Quote Perhaps the novelty aspect is beginning to wear thin. Y'know, some countries don't even have ANY. No "novelty" aspect to wear thin. Our teams travel far to use them.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #14 December 14, 2005 In eloy it seems that every skydiver wants in that tunnel. I dont see it being different anywhere else. There will be more and more tunnels popping up around the country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #15 December 14, 2005 Quote>I predict that wind tunnels will eventually fade from our sport. I agree, there really isn't any value to 4, 5, 15 minutes of straight doing RW or anything else to help reinforce good habits. Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #16 December 14, 2005 QuoteThe question is, will the skyventure branding/franchising keep the market prices high, or will the independent owners feel the pinch of the competitive economy as more tunnels open and reduce the price of time... It is a catch 22...There's also an explosion of market when prices drop too -- there's often an inverse exponential relationship with price reductions. If prices get cut by X%, there will be Y% more people -- i.e. prices get cut 50%, there could be 300% more people. There's not enough capacity on the tunnel market to absorb this, even if tunnels are still profitable at a 50% all-across-the-board price cut. (And I think it will be a long time before that happens). Also peak daytime electricity can be a lot more expensive in some places. While I agree that SkyVenture Orlando/Eloy/Perris will lose my business to the SkyVenture New Hampshire when it opens, I'd hope there is enough economics room I would hope to keep the tunnel economy sustainable for a long time to come -- whuffo or otherwise. Maybe one or two tunnels might close down, in a high-electricity-price high-rent-price poor-economy location when the motors get old, break down, and the tunnel can't afford the maintenance... But I'd hope this would only be an aberration or not happen. There's still a lot of demand because there are no open tunnels in Canada right now and the people in the Northeast has to fly to get to a tunnel. As long as SkyVenture remains regional and not open too many tunnels too close together, I think it's sustainable. Prices may drop, some of the tunnels may have a very hard time, get more whuffos...but sustainable nontheless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #17 December 14, 2005 QuoteWhy doesn’t anyone outside our sport know about wind tunnels? Who is handling the PR for SkyVenture? UntamedDOG The new owner of SVO doesn't jump (1 tandem) and just started tunnel flying. I think he is a great choice for a new owner, business oriented not skydiver oriented. He has some great ideas, who knows where they will go...we'll see soon! When you buy a SV tunnel you are paying that million dollars for the name also. They have a brand that they deserve to get paid for- skydivers love SV tunnels for training. If its worth a million dollars, I'm not sure but that's another post. I think you will see some nice things out of SVO with the new owner and also the Hollywood CA tunnel. He should also be owning that one when it opens.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #18 December 14, 2005 There is a plus from the business end, even though you pay that much a month in electric, you are operating a business for an average of 17 some odd hours a day. When they run 24-7 it really kicks up their average work day. The longer you are open, the more money you can make, obv. Don't quote me on the 17 hrs. but it is something rediculous like that. 168 Otter loads, that's crazy Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #19 December 14, 2005 QuoteNews flash. The SkyVenture wind tunnel model/prototype was not designed with skydiving as it's primary source of business. Wuffos are FAR more profitable. It's highly ego-centric to believe that Skydiving will be the life or death of the SkyVenture wind tunnel. Good call at almost $40 for 2 min and +$20 for a DVD the are making a good clip. Good for them though, I belive they bring flyers that much value/excitment/joy in their overall experience at SV.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 December 14, 2005 It's really no different from Skydiving. $200 for a tandem, $80 for a video......vs what it costs jumpers....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #21 December 14, 2005 Quote I predict that wind tunnels will eventually fade from our sport. Like any fad, they need a good business model to keep the interest alive. Wind tunnels will fade away when we have some other way to get 20 minutes of freefall for $200 in one hour. Assuming 40 seconds of working time per jump since you loose some altitude tracking away, $23 lift tickets, and 5-10 jumps in a day that currently takes nearly $700 and 3-6 days to do it the traditional way with airplanes. Transporters that instantly transport us to altitude and either back to altitude or to the ground when we get low would be a nice alternative.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattyblast 0 #22 December 15, 2005 Wind tunnels = BLECH. I'm a newbie, but not interested. I'd rather do 500 jumps with real free-falling then 20 jumps of fake-falling to learn the same skills...unless and until the prices for tunnel time go down. All the ads I've seen for wind tunnels show prices that make me laugh out loud!"DOOR!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yamtx73 0 #23 December 15, 2005 I'm a newbie too and I'll be honest about it, I'm looking forward to getting up to Orlando and put in some time in the tunnel. Why? Because I feel that it can only help me hone my skills (not that I actually have any at the moment) and make me a better skydiver.The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #24 December 15, 2005 And this is where newbie-ness rears its head. You need to do some more research. The price vs real freefall time is excellent. And it's a MUCH better training tool for RW and FF than freefall. Until you've actually used a Skyventure tunnel, you've no business knocking it.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #25 December 15, 2005 I'll tell ya what - You find sumbuddy with a handful of them thar wind-tunnel seeds and git 'em to plant few over by Chicago sumwheres. Oughta be one of those recirculatin' types 'cuz it gits coldern' a witches' tit here in the wintertime. I'm sure a few of us'll put her ta good use! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
