Wind Tunnels...a passing fad?

[Zenister 0]

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It's noisy with a slight breeze in this interior waiting room.

Won't be as noisy in the new SkyVenture Colorado Tunnel

how so?
significant enough to do without earplugs?

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Case in point: In Perris Valley, adults are charged $50 for two minutes (and $35 for each additional two minutes). So if I make a weekend out of it, I'm spending $200 on a plane ticket, $120 on a motel room for a couple nights, and $85 to fly for 4 minutes. Add food & beer, & you're pushing $450-$500...for 4 minutes!

People have gotten you closer to the true cost.

As an AFF student, it's no contest. $159 for one jump with perhaps 45 seconds of working time. Or 260 for 15 coached minutes at Perris where the instructor can walk around you and talk to you every 2 minutes on the waiting deck of the tunnel. Anyone that's failed a couple levels is likely to come out well ahead spending money on 15 virtual jumps.

Once you own your own gear, the price is close to the same for each if you're alone in the tunnel.

[flyangel2 2]

Just to save my fingers and typing at this hour, I suggest reading the discussion found here. They cover all the information pretty well in that section of the thread. Scroll down to Post #114 by bob.dino.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

Ok my 2cents, anyone that reads the Wind Tunnel section will probably already know the story.

In January I did AFF level 1, mainly for charity and it sounded fun.

I pretty much sucked (I have the vid if you really want to see how bad), I was incredibly tense, I was arched and belly to earth but no control at all.

I did just under 20 minutes at bodyflight, by the end of that I was stable and could turn, control fall rate to a degree etc.

Did AFF in Z-Hills and it was a breeze, all instructors I had commented how the tunnel time had helped.

AFF was completed in 3 days (would have been 2 but it was windy second day). Didn't fail a level. Which was exactly the same for a friend that did AFF at same time.

Without a doubt the tunnel was incredibly helpful, why would something this useful be a fad?

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[tomvailco 0]

myself, when I begin in the spring I will use the wind tunnel in Colorado because even if it's not cheap, it will make me a better and SAFER student/skydiver

[flyangel2 2]

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myself, when I begin in the spring I will use the wind tunnel in Colorado because even if it's not cheap, it will make me a better and SAFER student/skydiver

I think we here at SVC are pretty much in line with what the other tunnels are charging for block times.

http://www.skyventurecolorado.com/skydivers/index.php

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[goodvibesjumper 0]

If you want to truly be good at body flight, the wind tunnel is essential for training. Trust me dude, there are many skydivers that have the desire to be good at what they are doing. I'm not talking about 1000 jump wonder good. I mean truly good enough to get a firm understanding of body flight. The tunnel is a great tool for understanding body flight, better than the 1 minute at a time training you get in the sky. Don't believe me? Ask the best flyers out there. The demand is greater than ever before for good training, and the tunnel is the key. This is my opinion, I could be wrong. But I truly believe: This isn't a fad.

[vibeke 0]

Its a great training tool. The progress of the world top teams goes to show, even beginners doing their AFF in there get a kick-start.
And its so much fun!! Pure, hazzlefree entertainment.
Passing fad? Not unless they build some other environment that resembles the sky more realistically. And somehow ...I doubt thats gonna happen any time soon. Tunnels rock!!

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Your success and happiness, is in direct proportions to your commitment to excellence, regardless of your chosen field of endeavour.

[PhreeZone 15]

Tunnels are a wonderful training tool, but I do wonder how long it will be with the profileration of all the new tunnels out there until we see the first Skyventure design fold. The whuffo market is where the income levels really are on the tunnel. With the new tunnels in CO and NH that means the jumpers from that area no longer will be traveling to the existing tunnels to buy time. Could this decrease in the number of skydivers hurt the existing tunnels? Orlando probally not that much since its got a great tourist market to draw from. Perris and Eloy will see the largest hit in the skydiver market. Will business be impacted? I guess we just need to wait and see.

If every tunnel that is on the Skyventure list gets built I have a really hard time believing that the whuffo market could substain them all.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[xavenger 0]

Not read the full thread .. but in response to the first poster. You assume that wind tunnels are something to do with skydiving. I predict in 10 years there will be twice as many pure tunnel flyers than there are skydivers - easily. That is people who enjoy tunnel flying but who have no desire to skydive.

Tunnel flying is a sport in it's own right. Its not just training tool for skydivers. I enjoy tunnel flying just as much as skydiving - just in a different way. Sure it helps my skydiving but that's not why I do it.

Regards

James
http://www.tunnelflyer.com

[freakydiver 0]

Couldn't disagree more. I can go to my wind tunnel at lunch and get 10 minutes of practice A DAY. I don't live close enough to my DZ to do that. Also - look at the business model and LOCATION of the new colorado wind tunnel. I can all but gurantee you, that tunnel will draw from the rich local clientel that may not even jump. Lone tree is perhaps one of the more prominent hoods in all of colorado...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[PhreeZone 15]

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I predict in 10 years there will be twice as many pure tunnel flyers than there are skydivers - easily.

40,000 pure tunnel flyers is a lot of people...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

If we have 40K tunnel flyers that go regularly to VWTs for the purpose of flying just cuz, I think I'd keel over from shock!

I think that would be great.. but since there is less than (I'm totally guessing) a few hundred of us accumulated in the last 23+ years, I can't see it growing so much so quickly, but every industry needs a boom.. we're certainly due.

On topic (which was an old post anyway I think)
I sure hope that SKYDIVERS are a passing fad for Vertical Wind Tunnels... I think we'll do alot better and get ALOT more participation if it wasn't associated with such an extreme sport as jumping! I'm the first one on the other side of the argument, I don't think tunnel flying is extreme.. you could MAKE it that way if you wanted, but generally speaking I think it's slow and gentle and since it's open to everyone, certainly not too extreme.. how can babies be extreme???

So once more tunnel owners spend their dollars in adverts to the general public we'll be off and running toward that 40K people number... but for now, alot of them are focused on getting those jumpers in there and buying blocks. That is completely understandable after all... since skydivers have the bucks and are already willing to spend it on this.. they require less convincing!

Once VWTs get down to the $400-$500 per hour rate that I think they SHOULD be charging.. more and more people will learn to fly for sure. Once tunnel owners stop calling it indoor skydiving, I think that more people will want to learn to fly. I see more skateboarders get hurt than a tunnel could ever hurt, however parents think of skateboarding as generally safe while indoor skydiving raises an eyebrow for sure! Then comes the price... $10 per minute (at a good rate) FORGET IT! For those on vacation they are prepared to spend too much on fun & entertainment.. but for those who happen to live near one, on a normal spending budget I just don't see it as affordable yet. And even when it is.. if we don't spin it another way other than indoor skydiving.. we're not likely to ever see participation greater than the skydiving industry has!

Now.. thank goodness in the last couple of years there have popped up quite a few tunnel only resources online and in print... I can't think of one of these that spins it as indoor skydiving OTHER than to gain the keyword recognition necessary to be pulled up via search engines. Most prefer to call it tunnel flying, tunneling, bodyflying, body flight etc.. I see why 20+ years ago Flyaway called it indoor skydiving.. as a pioneer in the industry Flyaway had to quickly grasp on to any trends that were current.. and skydiving was becoming all the rage then... but now? With so many out there... why does this trend keep going!?!?!

Tunnelflying should be something families go do every wednesday night, like bowling used to be or family game night is now. Family fun, a healthy alternative to sitting around on your BUTS joining the 60% of american's who are morbidly overweight! It's a way of life to me... not some extreme sport.. and if I have my way, millions of people will fly daily just because it's fun.. not because it's associated with skydiving as a training tool.

[mdrejhon 8]

Although I view windtunnel as a way to improve my skydiving skills, I would be inclined to agree with you... There's a really big whuffo market out there.

I have heard of these proposals that does make a lot of sense:

- The Zero-G room in Houston. ("Oh! They have a zero gravity room now!")

- The dual 10-feet-diameter recreational windtunnels at an upcoming huge shopping mall. (where the flying areas are plainly visible to people walking by. "Mom -- I want to try that!")

[skycat 0]

I totally understand what you are saying, the tunnel reminds me a lot of the rock gym. While its a tool that outdoor rock climbers can use to stay in shape during the winter months or during the week, there is a large group of people who indoor climb who have never touched real rock. While they have the skills to climb when they get outdoors they are at a loss because they have to pick their route and hand holds which they have never had to do before. The gyms are a lot safer, top ropes are already set, routes are shorter, protection is already in place, and there is almost no chance of a rock hitting you in the head. Now I did see a hold come loose once and heard a guy yell rock in a very confused voice. He said he wasn't sure what to yell since it wasn't a rock, the gym rat said next time yell plastic.

Same with the tunnel it is a controlled environment, you have an instructor to keep you out of trouble till you get it, now the instructor could screw up and you could get hurt that is a possibility, but after hearing about the training regime I think that is a very slim possibility.

Fly it like you stole it!

[pjchis 0]

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Although I view windtunnel as a way to improve my skydiving skills, I would be inclined to agree with you... There's a really big whuffo market out there.

Tunnels have to be the most effective and efficient way (regarding money and time) to learn, perfect, and explore your skydiving skills. And yes, you are exactly right, there is a big whuffo market but isn't there for dropzones too? It seems like more and more DZs are just doing tandems!

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The dual 10-feet-diameter recreational windtunnels at an upcoming huge shopping mall. (where the flying areas are plainly visible to people walking by. "Mom -- I want to try that!")

The design of the new SkyVenture Colorado tunnel allows flyers in the tunnel to be seen from outside. This is just speculation, but I would guess just that component alone will be responsible for 25% of the "whuffo" business. Probably even more. So check it out, it's going to be awesome:
www.skyventurecolorado.com

[flyangel2 2]

Tsks, tsks............Brett, when you put a link to the SVC tunnel, you need to make it a clicky.

www.skyventurecolorado.com


If you need lessons on that, drop me a PM

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[pjchis 0]

Oops.
I know how, I just forgot to do it! It's even better if you just make it a name clicky. (I doubt that's the technical name...)

Observe:
SkyVenture Colorado

So now you guys are just one click away!

[diablopilot 2]

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If every tunnel that is on the Skyventure list gets built I have a really hard time believing that the whuffo market could substain them all.

Why? There are mutiple amusment parks, water parks, and other attractions around the country?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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I totally understand what you are saying, the tunnel reminds me a lot of the rock gym. While its a tool that outdoor rock climbers can use to stay in shape during the winter months or during the week, there is a large group of people who indoor climb who have never touched real rock. While they have the skills to climb when they get outdoors they are at a loss because they have to pick their route and hand holds which they have never had to do before. The gyms are a lot safer, top ropes are already set, routes are shorter, protection is already in place, and there is almost no chance of a rock hitting you in the head. Now I did see a hold come loose once and heard a guy yell rock in a very confused voice. He said he wasn't sure what to yell since it wasn't a rock, the gym rat said next time yell plastic.

Same with the tunnel it is a controlled environment, you have an instructor to keep you out of trouble till you get it, now the instructor could screw up and you could get hurt that is a possibility, but after hearing about the training regime I think that is a very slim possibility.

How about the convenience factor.. that certainly plays on it for me... for instance, if I would like to fly for 30 minutes, it would take me a whole week of dedicated jumping, as opposed to an hour at the tunnel..

I'd guess some indoor climbers do it for the same reason.. quicker than taking the trek out to whatever location to get oriented, find a buddy to go with, plan your route etc like you said.. just to climb for a little while... I'm guessing in the amount of time they would've spent driving to a location to climb au natural.. they could've already been done at the gym!

And Phree... with the right advertising and proper publicity.. there should be no reason that there aren't a COUPLE of VWTs in every majorly populated state in the US and country overseas! One tunnel can only fly so many people a day.. a really good day for a tunnel would be only 150 flights! That's not that many really.....especially if it becomes affordable.

[skycat 0]

I totally forgot about the convience factor. You are very right, you spend all day to get in 3-5 climbs outside where as you can whip 10 out in an hour or two in the gym. And it's the exact same thing I can do a ton of flying in the tunnel in an hour while at the DZ I may get 7 jumps in a day.

That was my biggest issues with skydiving once I moved to CO. There is so much to do here that I hate spending an entire day at the DZ to get a few jumps in when I can hit the mountains do 6 or 7 ski runs before noon and then hit one of the local outdoor walls on the way home and get two or three climbs in and then still be home before the sun goes down to get cleaned up and ready to go out.

I can't wait for the tunnel to open up and start getting some real time in the air to work on my flying skills. Then on weekends I can hit the DZ in the morning to knock out some H&Ps to get my canopies skills back to where they were before I broke my wrist (snowboarding accident). This way next summer I'll be ready to become an event jumper and join Mary on some of her trips to different boogies.

Fly it like you stole it!

[RossDagley 0]

Didn't catch this when you posted, only caught it today reading back.

Its pretty interesting to see people who've never flown in the tunnel but with 'high' (3-500) jump numbers fly n the tunnel - pretty often they'll spend the first minute trying not to bounce off the walls - and these are *experienced* flyers.

The tunnel is ideal for learning how much input is required for how much effect - I can move 6 ft up, or 3 foot to my left in the sky by the input required and practised in the tunnel. People who've never flown in the tunnel dont realise how 'bad' they actually fly (drift, sliding etc). They've never had anything 'solid' to base their inputs against so cant measure the input. A wall reminds you you cant backslide too far

[flyangel2 2]

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This way next summer I'll be ready to become an event jumper and join Mary on some of her trips to different boogies

Yup, the wind tunnel keeps me current

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[skytash 0]

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I'm also looking forward to learning how to freefly in the tunnel. I'd rather spend my time in two min blocks in the tunnel learning freeflying, then up in the sky having to worry about it being time to pull. Once I have mastered the skills in the tunnel with freeflying, I'm looking forward to taking it to the sky.

that's exactly what I'm doing this winter - anyone would have thought we were friends

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[NelKel 0]

Last year I was in Florida for the symposium and to vacation, so of course I went to the tunnel in Orlando. In my group was a family of 5 adults who had all bought skyrides.

They were very nervous, and fearful about skydiving. I guess it was an impulse buy and couldn't get a refund. I pieced all of this together after our time was up and I heard one of the wemon say, "Well now I know what it's like, and I am no longer as fearful" " It was actually kinda easy"

A couple of days latter I saw the whole group at a local DZ making their jumps.

Piont I trying to make is that tourism will wind up paying the bills, when the novelity wears off for jumpers.

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Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan