Who has more tunnel time than freefall time?

[jheadley 0]

Yea I didn't think it would be counted, although I heard a USPA director say it was, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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Also, USPA wouldn't count tunnel time toward any qualifying freefall time

last time I checked Tunnel Time does count toward AFF requirements.. but only 3 jumps worth.

I guess I'll have to go look that up.. now WHERE was that.....

Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air,
Dawn Suiter
PMTS #3 Join @ A.A.C.

[Bowen 0]

Hey Avion,

Are you fred that comes to skyventure???

-Bowen

Retired Tunnel Instructor, Sky/Tunnel Coach

Former dealer for 2k Composites, Skysystems, Alti-2, Wings

[riddler 0]

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last time I checked Tunnel Time does count toward AFF requirements.. but only 3 jumps worth.

????????????????

If that's true, I would be very interested to see. Here are the only requirements that I see in the IRM (AFF, 1.A.4.):

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4. Jumpers may earn the USPA AFF Instructor rating who
have met all the following requirements:
a. reached the age of 18 years
b. holds or has held any USPA instructional
rating
c. earned a USPA C license or the FAI equivalent
d. logged six hours of freefall time
e. completed the USPA AFF Instructor Proficiency
Card (applicable portions)
f. successfully proven ability by successfully
completing the written and practical AFF
evaluation process with a USPA AFF Instructor
Rating Course director

Can't find anything on the tunnel in the IRM. It would be interesting to me, because it opens up the possibility of the USPA later increasing the allowed amount, or increasing the required amount, or mandating tunnel time as well as - all sorts of possibilities here.

*Edit* - after replying, I realized that I was talking about AFFI requirements (for instructors), and you might be talking about FJC AFF requirements (for students). So I did a search in the SIM, and I did find mention of tunnel training in the new ISP, but it doesn't seem to indicate any equivelant numbers.

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2. USPA recognizes the following training methods,
or disciplines:
a. USPA Accelerated Freefall (harness hold), where
the student exits with two instructors who hold
the student by the parachute harness for guidance
and observation.
b. instructor-assisted deployment (IAD) and static
line, the same method using different equipment
during the initial jumps
(1) pilot chute deployed by the instructor as the
student exits (instructor-assisted deployment)
(2) deployment via a static attachment to the
aircraft that separates once the parachute
deploys (static line)
c. tandem, where the student’s harness is attached
to the front of the instructor’s harness as part of a
specially designed and built parachute system for
tandem skydiving
d. vertical wind tunnel training, where a student
receives instruction and practices basic freefall
control and maneuvering

I'm not sure how USPA "recognizing" tunnel training really counts toward any qualifying requirements though ...

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I was referring to AFF students.. not instructor ratings...

I haven't had time yet, but I will go look..

Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air,
Dawn Suiter
PMTS #3 Join @ A.A.C.

[riddler 0]

I was editing while you were replying Check out the above post.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I guess it just provides a discretionary buffer.. for instance, I completed my AFF in only a couple of jumps.. but I still made all required jumps with an instructor.. we just added big ways to them, this way, my status wouldn't be removed in the future, for not doing the required jumps even though I was more than qualified after the first couple to move on..
SO...
it was my interpretation, as well as the few tunnel flyer AFF instructors I know, that this allows them a discretionary buffer, where they could pass a student in LESS than the required number of jumps as a result of the logged tunnel time.. the REQUIRED Manuevers for passing would be the same, but they could be accomplished in less jumps without scrutiny in the future..

I think I'm rambling now.. I'll move on..
I am very glad though that I did make all the required AFF jumps with my instructor.. it did wonders for my confidence, I wouldn't be nearly as good today if he had passed me without a second thought after the first couple!!!

Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air,
Dawn Suiter
PMTS #3 Join @ A.A.C.

[riddler 0]

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this allows them a discretionary buffer, where they could pass a student in LESS than the required number of jumps as a result of the logged tunnel time.. the REQUIRED Manuevers for passing would be the same, but they could be accomplished in less jumps without scrutiny in the future..

Hmm - this is a good question, and perhaps one for a different forum. But I believe that AFFIs already have the discretion to skip AFF levels for students if they feel the student is already capable, tunnel training or not. I don't know if that's a formal rule, but I do know several AFF instructor that, after a few jumps, have elected to skip one or more AFF levels.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[diablopilot 2]

Yes and no and not yet.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[arlo 0]

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They don't really even teach those times when you're pretty far from your group and need to catch up quick, or if you're very low or very high.

not true. you can absolutely learn to 'slow fall' and 'fast fall' in the tunnel. absolutely. if you're 1/2 mile away and trying to find your group, then, you're correct.

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The only thing they teach is the basic body positions you need to fly and working with others when you're already pretty close to them.

again, i'll disagree with that statement. head down outfacing carving is not a basic move and it's something i used to do that in the tunnel (to some degree) before the rust started building up.

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Also, USPA wouldn't count tunnel time toward any qualifying freefall time, such as the required six hours of freefall to get the AFF rating.

why would they? tunnel flying is NOT skydiving. never has been...never will be. it's different. it absolutely helps with your freefall ability, but it is not the same thing. i still don't understand why people feel it should be counted as freefall time.


JMHO.

arlo

edited to add: i do realize that people have completed their AFF in 3 or 4 jumps because they've had tunnel training. but they still perform the requirements of those levels, it's just condensed because they CAN. someone with say, 10 minutes of tunnel time won't be blessed off for a level or two just because they have 10 mins. they still have to meet the requirements for that level.

whoops. i forgot to say i have high twenty something hours of freefall time (not sure exactly...don't log anymore) and i have no idea how much tunnel time other than a lot more than freefall (maybe double?).

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I have a LOT of "real" freefall time due to having a lot of jumps (over 4200) and a ton of wingsuit jumps (over 70 hours freefall time), but I have 254 hours of tunnel time in the Matos facility (the Bragg tunnel).

[Bowen 0]

I have about 20/22 minutes of freefall and about 20+ hours in the tunnel ( I dont count instructing students or overseeing people buying block time )

-Bowen

Retired Tunnel Instructor, Sky/Tunnel Coach

Former dealer for 2k Composites, Skysystems, Alti-2, Wings