Best thing you've ever seen a student do....

[JohnMitchell 16]

Best thing I've seen in awhile? A level 2 student survive a horseshoe malfunction . . . this last weekend.

[dhbiker517 0]

That WAS pretty exciting wasn't it John?

Thought he was going to fight that until AAD fire...

[JohnMitchell 16]

dhbiker517

That WAS pretty exciting wasn't it John?

Thought he was going to fight that until AAD fire...

Haha, yeah, glad to see him finally pull the cutaway.

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

JohnMitchell

***That WAS pretty exciting wasn't it John?

Thought he was going to fight that until AAD fire...

Haha, yeah, glad to see him finally pull the cutaway.
Alright, you cannot do this.

Please give the basics of what happened.

What hung up and where?
Did he get the "other" end untangled before cutting away?
Did he ever get the "other" end untangled?
Was there any interference between the reserve and the entangled crap?

Glad to hear it turned out ok.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JohnMitchell 16]

wolfriverjoe

Alright, you cannot do this.

Please give the basics of what happened.

Okay, pretty normal level 2 with a pretty nervous student, 25-ish male, average size and build. Locked on at 6K, waved and pulled at 5,5. He brought the pilot chute up pretty high towards his head before letting go. As soon as he let go, I, being on the main side, turned and tracked. As I'm tracking off I look back between my feet and see he's got the PC bridal wrapped around his right ankle, inflated, and was yanking away from the reserve side instructor. The reserve side guy didn't really see what happened but that he seemed to dip right shoulder low, legs slightly up after I left. Pilot chute hesitation coming back down? I don't know, didn't see it.

So now he's on his back slowly spinning down below us and I'm turning, watching, 4K now, wondering if I should go back, or if he's going to cutaway like he should. Then the pin pops and the bag is around his leg and the main struggles its way out of the bag and deploys. The student's foot appears to be caught in something, lines or riser or maybe still pilot chute, but everything has slowed down, thank goodness.

I open about the same level. He finally gets untangled but is under line-overed partial malfunction of some sort, not steerable, not landable. I'm flying over yelling "cutaway, cutaway" when he finally does at about 2.5K. Normal reserve deployment, but now we're low and over the trees, and his steering is not taking him the shortest route to the open field.

I front riser down in front of him and lead him on the shortest route over the bad terrain. That also gives me a chance to check that we'll all clear the trees. If it looked bad, I planned to lead him to an alternate.

The guy on the ground running the radio had no idea where the student on the green parachute was, so the student, on his white reserve, did an okay flare on his own. I landed ahead of him (by front risering down quickly) and turned to yell "flare" at the appropriate time, but I don't know if he heard me or not.

After some extensive debriefing, he went up and did a perfect level 3. Quite a first day in the sport.

Quote

Glad to hear it turned out ok.

Boy, howdy.

[gunpaq 1]

1. Pull stable and at altitude.
2. Miraculously clear a horseshoe.
3. Land on target without injury to body or equipment.
4. Find and bring back a PRCP dropped on pull on same jump.

www.geronimoskydiving.com

[riggerrob 601]

"Intimate" jump-master techniques can prevent a whole raft of problems.

Best way to prevent a student from climbing back in (Cessna) is for the JM to "assist" (hand grip on harness) by "accompanying" them towards the end of the wing strut.
I sometimes "tap" thier foot off the step. As soon as thier foot is off the step, I plant my left foot on the outboard edge of the step to prevent them from climbing back in. A firmly planted left foot also prevents them from whacking the step.
"Crowding" the student allows intimate eye contact and yelling instructions in thier ear. If we fly too far past the spot, I can also peel thier fingertips off the strut.

Finally, I am amazed that Danes can turn a profit with Cessna 182RG. I would have thought they were too heavy to climb well.
I have seen a jump step installed on a later-model 182 with tubular main gear legs.

On a similar note: the primary difference between a Cessna 206 and a 210 is the massive hump in the aft cabin. That hump hides the retracted gear, but also limits cabin volume to a pair of tandems.

[gowlerk 2,100]

Quote

"Crowding" the student allows intimate eye contact and yelling instructions in thier ear.

I always found this to be the best method. There is no need to push or kick at feet. Just take advantage of the human need for space. If you get very close to them their natural instinct to have some space will make them completely forget about their fear. They just want you out of their space. If their hands are out far enough, but they won't step off to hang, you never need to kick them. If they have weight on their foot it is not effective anyway. All you need to do is apply a small amount of sideways pressure to their knee. They will immediately pull it out of the way to protect it. It's all about taking advantage of natural instincts.

These techniques also allow you to completely control the pilot chute and bridle. Keeping it very close to the harness. Which is your most important job on hanging IADs.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mathrick 2]

riggerrob

Finally, I am amazed that Danes can turn a profit with Cessna 182RG. I would have thought they were too heavy to climb well.

We don't :). It's all clubs, money is made on tandems and for some clubs large organised student groups like the military. General jumping activity is a net loss and subsidised by the income from those. But from my experience with the few RGs, they seem to climb a little bit better than non-RG.

Quote

I have seen a jump step installed on a later-model 182 with tubular main gear legs.

Yup, that's how my home club's OY-FCJ is equipped.

http://www.oy-reg.dk/billeder/l7004.jpg

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

Wow. Thanks for the details.

Pure speculation, but having the PC "up high towards his head" may have let it end up in the burble behind him (which could explain how it ended up near his foot).

Again, glad it turned out ok.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JohnMitchell 16]

wolfriverjoe

Pure speculation, but having the PC "up high towards his head" may have let it end up in the burble behind him (which could explain how it ended up near his foot).

My speculation too. Being main side, I left when the pilot chute left. But I teach "hard throw to the side", not soft toss next to the head. That's so 1980's.

[airsport 0]

When a student decides to hang on longer than is reasonable I would pull the nose up, and so far, everyone has left the strut... Makes an interesting sound when the fingertips "strum" the strut on departure.

[keithbar 1]

airsport

When a student decides to hang on longer than is reasonable I would pull the nose up, and so far, everyone has left the strut... Makes an interesting sound when the fingertips "strum" the strut on departure.

back when bardstown ky was open there was a guy that was convinced that he could wrap both arms and legs around the strut and the pilot couldn't shake him off. Kenny told him he could get rid of him whenever he wanted
A little nose down then a quick snap back on the control yoke proved him wrong. The bruises were impressive

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[jurgencamps 0]

During his first jump, the goggles over this AFF student's glasses come loose.
Student takes his glasses off, folds it (the temples?), hands them to one of the jumpmasters, puts his goggles back on and continues with his jump (practice pulls).

[riggerrob 601]

One of our freefall students (50 second delays) talked a friend into doing a tandem.
The tandem student's legs were shaking - with fear - while waiting for her plane. So I taught her a few dance steps.
During the plane ride, she was saying "I hate you! I hate you!" and punching her friend (big tough ex-infantryman) in the arm.
The freefall student climbed out first.
Tandem scooted to the door, slightly too slowly to kick him off the step.
We all landed in the same field.
Last thing I saw, she was chasing her friend round the flag pole .... threatening bodily injury if she ever caught him!
Hah!
Hah!

[jumpsalot-2 3]

jurgencamps

During his first jump, the goggles over this AFF student's glasses come loose.
Student takes his glasses off, folds it (the temples?), hands them to one of the jumpmasters, puts his goggles back on and continues with his jump (practice pulls).

Sounds like he/she will make a great freeflier .....

Life is short ... jump often.

[riggerrob 601]

Many years ago - back when we were still using military-surplus rounds - I watched a petite static-line student roll on exit and grab her sleeve. She maintained a "death grip" on that sleeve until 1,000 feet. Fortunately Saint Francis Xavier Chevrier was on duty that day to deploy her reserve.

Morale of the story: "long s/l (static-line assisting a spring-loaded pilot-chute to stretch out a full-length sleeve on a round canopy) allows students too many opportunities to interfere (roll, loop, grab, etc.) a partially deployed canopy.

Direct bag s/l is better because bag is beyond reach before - all but the clumsiest - students can interfere with deployment.
IAD is slightly better than direct bag because the pilot-chute and d-bag blow down-wind (the farthest possible angle) away from flailing arms and legs.

[dninness 4]

Had a guy last weekend, 29 jumps 16 years ago. Apparently the rigs at my DZ were equipped with ripcords then (I'm pretty sure they weren't, but OK).

I trained him in an FJC 3-4 weeks ago, no indications of having any odd tendencies to be trained out of him, etc. He's pretty solid, maybe a little slow to integrate things (getting older, like me), but seems to have the right moves and answers.

We did him a Cat B instead of a Cat A, and he was fine, if not a tiny bit stiff. Nice turns, good leg extension, solid altitude awareness. Here's 6k, lock on.. 5.5, wave off. And as he's reaching back for the handle, I reach up to grab his hand and put it on the handle when ... he folds in half in the middle, trying to LOOK for the hip-mounted ripcord.

So here we are at pull time, student trying hard to front loop us. My reserve side is our S&TA and he's got a legstrap and sinks quick to counteract. Meanwhile, I'm trying to get his hand on the handle while at the same time trying to backslide and prevent the frontloop.

Never saw a tendency to look down for the handle in any of the pre-training. It worked out, but he got an hour of practice on the horizontal trainer afterwards. Geez.

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[mr2mk1g 10]

What about that pilot a couple of years ago who was part way through AFF and ended up in that infamous 2-plane collision on jump run where his wing separated?

Got out of what was left of the tumbling airplane, tracked clear and pulled.

Got cleared for self supervision on the basis of the otherwise unintended jump.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Wait, what?!

I never heard that part of the story.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[riggerrob 601]

Kudos to that pilot in Wisconsin.
If he was partway through AFF (with square canopies) I wonder why he wore a pilot emergency parachute containing a round canopy?????
With a square canopy, he could have steered away from those trees and landed on the grass beside the runway.

Sorry if I sound like a grumpy, grey-bearded, opinionated, stubborn old fart, but I made up my mind about rounds versus squares 20 years ago and please don't waste your time trying to tell me anything new.
Hint: I was jumping Precision P-124A prototype canopies (stuffed into Aviator PEP containers) when my opinion stagnated.

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

Sport rigs are not as comfortable as an emergency bailout rig.

Especially if he would have had a rather large student rig.

I always wore the "pilot rig" when I flew the plane, not my own sport rig.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[riggerrob 601]

Sorry Wolfriverjoe,
But I was suggesting a pilot emergency parachute go twing a large square reserve canopy .... say a PD 253 reserve.l .... similar to the reserves most schools loan to first solo jump students.

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

riggerrob

Sorry Wolfriverjoe,
But I was suggesting a pilot emergency parachute go twing (containing?) a large square reserve canopy .... say a PD 253 reserve.l .... similar to the reserves most schools loan to first solo jump students.

Ahh. That would be a bit different.

The problem is that pilots generally don't care about what's in the bailout rig.
They usually share one or two between all the pilots. And many of the pilots have zero experience flying a canopy, so rounds suit them better.

I knew perfectly well that the round in the bailout rig was going to:

A - open very hard (the story was that one guy had jumped the bailout rig on purpose - it opened so hard his shoes came off).

B - land very hard. I understand how hard rounds land, even with a "featherbutt" like me under it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[vanair 0]

TV show Ripcord used one, but then$$$ talks