0
riggerrob

What year did you school start teaching AFF?

Recommended Posts

I believe that aircraft is the deciding factor and efficiency of operation. We're a single 182 DZ and offer tandem and IAD training. AFF would tie up the airplane, and be a huge staffing problem.

If you look through the DZ list, there are still a large percentage of operations that do not do AFF.

So, that date is still potentially somewhere out in the future, if at all.

Martin
Wichita Ks

Edit to add: Ok, I'm wrong. It looks like about 10% of DZs are tandem and SL/IAD only. Another 5 to 10% are tandem only. Out here in the plane states, AFF is less common.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed!
Airplane size and climb rate seem to be the determine factors in whether a DZ concentrates on AFF for solo students.
Smaller DZs that only fly slow- climbing Cessnas seem to prefer IAD and S/L. If the plane only climbs to 9,000 feet - on hot days - then students struggle to complete their lessons in the time available.

OTOH DZs with fast-climbing turbines prefer AFF because the airplane is already going to the top floor and they probably already have extra seats for instructors, vidiots, fun-jumpers, etc.
IOW it costs (the DZO) less (per seat) to send AFF students to the top floor in a turbine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
riggerrob

Agreed!
Airplane size and climb rate seem to be the determine factors in whether a DZ concentrates on AFF for solo students.
Smaller DZs that only fly slow- climbing Cessnas seem to prefer IAD and S/L. If the plane only climbs to 9,000 feet - on hot days - then students struggle to complete their lessons in the time available.

OTOH DZs with fast-climbing turbines prefer AFF because the airplane is already going to the top floor and they probably already have extra seats for instructors, vidiots, fun-jumpers, etc.
IOW it costs (the DZO) less (per seat) to send AFF students to the top floor in a turbine.



We loiter the 182 at 4,000' for multiple passes dispatching IAD students. Once they're in freefall, they exit at various altitudes for the next 7 or 8 jumps before they're going to the top. It would not be efficient at all to do that with a turbine aircraft.

Staffing is also an issue. One IAD instructor can dispatch three IAD students on one load. Or put out two on IAD, then go higher with a FF student. A skydiver can be an IAD instructor with as little as 200 jumps, where it's more like 500 for AFF. A lot of the folks out here do less than 100 jumps a year, so it would be 5 to 10 years before someone could typically qualify to be an AFF I, and the majority are gone on to other pursuits before achieving those numbers.

Some small operations are choosing Tandem Progression, so it's not as AFF Instructor Intensive, or that's one reason to train Tandem Progression.

In the end, it's all governed by the bottom line. Other than a few operations like ours who would really be better off not doing AFF, but feel compelled by social and market pressures. You can't be one of the cool kids if you're not doing AFF after all!

Edit for spelling, and to add:
I've also had a bone to pick with the USPA Coach Rating. I was the driving force in changing the scope of what a Coach can do at a SL/IAD operation. I currently have a waiver allowing my Coach (only have one right now) to do the ground training for the free fall jumps that she's qualified to do. Another rule which needs to be changed.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
riggerrob

What year did your school start teaching Accompanied FreeFall?

Got my rating in Utah in 1983 at a Cessna DZ. I had actually done a "bandit" aff jump in 1982 for a hangliding instructor friend. In '84 moved to WA where no DZ's were doing AFF, so the rating lapsed after a while. Got my rating back about 10 years ago and been doing AFF since. :)
Having the big lift capacity of a big DZ makes it much easier than at a Cessna DZ. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skydived19006

I currently have a waiver allowing my Coach (only have one right now) to do the ground training for the free fall jumps that she's qualified to do.

I don't really know much about the coach rating, never had one. But I've seen coaches teach the entire FJC. Aren't they able to do ALL ground prep for subsequent jumps?

I'm sure you remember the old model. First you were a Jumpmaster, and could do and train anything BUT the FJC. Later you got your instructor rating and could then teach the FJC. Considering how critical a good FJC is, I was surprised when the USPA lowered the requirements to coach rating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnMitchell

*** I currently have a waiver allowing my Coach (only have one right now) to do the ground training for the free fall jumps that she's qualified to do.

I don't really know much about the coach rating, never had one. But I've seen coaches teach the entire FJC. Aren't they able to do ALL ground prep for subsequent jumps?

I'm sure you remember the old model. First you were a Jumpmaster, and could do and train anything BUT the FJC. Later you got your instructor rating and could then teach the FJC. Considering how critical a good FJC is, I was surprised when the USPA lowered the requirements to coach rating.

It's pretty darn convoluted John. I believe that most of the confusion comes from the idea and implementation of the Integrated Student Program. My experience with it tells me that they built it around the AFF model, then just "dropped in" Static Line and IAD.

So, Coaches are allowed to run the initial ground training except for "method specific portion". For SL/IAD that portion would be the aircraft exit by my interpretation.

Coaches are allowed to take over after the 7 AFF Levels are completed, so categories E, F, and G. Translate for IAD/SL, those students were top floor, basically just finishing up. I wrote a Waiver Request to allow my Coaches to conduct the category C jumps after a good H&P (I chose that point because I thought that it would meet with the least political resistance). So, now the Coaches can finish up Category C (10 second freefall), and do Category D 2-15 second, 2-30 second, and top floor for the 90 and 180 degree turns. That adds another 10 or so jumps to what a Coach can train.

The problem is, and I didn't understand this until some years later, that Coaches are not allowed to conduct the ground training for those Category D jumps, only supervise the air portion! My current Waiver allows my Coaches to do the ground training for all the jumps that they're qualified to do. I made a short "proficiency form" indicating that I'd given them instruction (I'm an IE) for the Category D jumps. I'll see if I can attach that form.

The attached form was a cut/paste from another proficiency card, and I tried to copy the format on the training objectives, signatures required, etc. I need to submit a report for 2015, and resubmit for 2016.

My ultimate goal is to have the SIM updated to reflect these changes. There's a problem with implementation, in that the "extra training" is not necessary for AFF Coaches, and I don't think that the BOD is interested in having "Method Specific Coaches." Maybe some sort of, as we would say in the airplane pilot world, an Endorsement to be added on the Coach Rating for the earlier ISP Categories?

I think that there's another thread in here on this topic from last year. We're having a bit of "thread creep" here.

Martin
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnMitchell

Thanks for the reply. The sport certainly has evolved from the static line days. I remember j/m-ing my first student when I had 47 jumps. It was a busy day at the DZ and the kid was on 5 second delays, so they said "go up and put him out." The good ole days. :D



Pretty much the same where I trained up. I didn't, at the time, know the rules, so thought it was all on the up-and-up. The pre-jumpmaster JCC training consisted if first dispatching freefall students, then training on handling the static line. I think that I was dispatching freefall students. As you I was sub 50 jumps, and signing log books with my A license number. Then, we'd attend the next available JCC, typically once a year. Those JCCs were reminiscent of the conversation on "The Group W bench" in Alice's Restaurant.

Martin
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0