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DJL

How AFF-I's wearing cameras are going to kill students.

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https://vimeo.com/126996983

Fuck-up 1 is obviously the crap camera mount on main side, Fuck-up 2 is that the lines from the tumbling D-bag also could have caught on the Reserve side's camera mount. A student then executing their EPs could have dumped the reserve into their entangled instructors. At that point we're looking at a dead student and two instructors lucky to survive.

Seriously, just get outside video, inside video is crap for instructional purposes. You don't have to make the student pay for the whole package, there are plenty of qualified people around the DZ who would do it for the slot and just put the raw footage on a thumb drive.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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Nice video you found!

Inside video is awesome.
But fair enough, I'm at a dz that has never ever used outside video for AFF. So having inside video is way better than no video at all. And you can have it on every jump, at basically no extra cost. Seems to work pretty decently especially if the instructor scans the whole student's body.

But yes the issue of snagging is a big one, especially if just using a gopro and not a traditional boxed sidemount Sony CX etc.

The video also shows how poorly behaved a pilot chute can be, even a hand deploy with no heavy spring in it, when close in to a jumper's burble. On its own it would have escaped earlier, but being on a short leash it just kept flopping back into the burble.

Did the instructor just use the helmet's regular release system rather than some quick release? Hard to tell at first glance. At least he eventually got to that, while the reserve side instructor tried to hold the main bag from going anywhere too soon.

So what do instructors do at other places? Do many skip inside video or do many do it anyway?

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DJL

https://vimeo.com/126996983

Fuck-up 1 is obviously the crap camera mount on main side, Fuck-up 2 is that the lines from the tumbling D-bag also could have caught on the Reserve side's camera mount. A student then executing their EPs could have dumped the reserve into their entangled instructors. At that point we're looking at a dead student and two instructors lucky to survive.

Seriously, just get outside video, inside video is crap for instructional purposes. You don't have to make the student pay for the whole package, there are plenty of qualified people around the DZ who would do it for the slot and just put the raw footage on a thumb drive.




You make a lot of assumptions in your post and I disagree with quite a bit of what you said.

As you correctly stated, the problem here was the type and location of the instructor's camera mount. A front mount with a big snag factor is an accident waiting to happen as evidenced by this video. However to say that instructors wearing cameras is going to kill a student is a gross overstatement. There are plenty of ways to mount cameras with no snag hazards. This applies whether used by a main side or reserve side instructor.

You incorrectly stated that inside video is not effective for instructional purposes. Leg and arm positions, arch, deployment technique, and just about everything else needed to critique the student can easily be seen from the instructor's perspective assuming the camera is set up and flown properly.

You incorrectly assume that there are "...plenty of qualified people around the DZ who would do it for the slot..." when referring to the use of outside video. This may be true at some drop zones, but is far from a universal truth. Additionally, AFF training is expensive enough already without adding to the cost by putting another jump ticket into the mix.

There can also be safety issues in adding another jumper to the group. Camera flyers can take out exits, get caught in the burble of students who sometimes make radical unintended movements, and create countless other hazards, especially if they are of a skill level that they would "do it for the slot" as you put it. AFF jumps involve risks that require qualified personnel. I submit that not everyone who is qualified to fly a camera is qualified to fly one on AFF jumps.

What this video demonstrates is that a poorly designed camera mount was used for the skydive at hand. Honestly it's an unsafe mount for any skydive, but it's not the fact that this instructor had a camera that was the problem. Had the instructor had a snagless mount there would not have been an issue.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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>Seriously, just get outside video, inside video is crap for instructional purposes. You
>don't have to make the student pay for the whole package, there are plenty of
>qualified people around the DZ who would do it for the slot and just put the raw
>footage on a thumb drive.

You generally don't want "people who will do it for the slot" doing AFF video, IMO. It's one of the most challenging types of video you can do, and the risks to the student and instructor are large. At Brown we had a very near fatality due to a camera person focusing on the student and losing track of the instructors. You really want someone experienced, current at AFF and great at video - and those generally aren't the people who have nothing to do and just want their slot paid for.

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In most circumstances, inside video *can* be helpful.

I have a CX100 with an Opteka .3 "Baby Death" lens inside an Exit Equipment XQ-010 box (http://www.exitequipment.com/boxes_xq010.html) on top of my helmet, with a cutaway and no ring site or other protuberances. I built my helmet rig almost specifically with inside AFF video in mind and the potential for a "PC & bridle in the face" situation.

There is a tiny gap (1-2mm?) between the lens bottom and the top of the helmet that *could* get a bridle in it if the bridle went in completely edgewise, but you'd have to be trying pretty damn hard (not saying it might not happen, but its a pretty slim possibility).

With a normal arm's length sort of AFF grip, I can get the student from the knees to fingertips no sweat, or from elbows to toes, no sweat (I can pretty much see the student end to end with normal minor head movement). Work great for debriefing body position and such.

Based on this video, however, my DZ has made the decision that we'll have no more inside AFF video.

Honestly, that instructor's GoPro mount is frightening from the standpoint of "high snag factor"
NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

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yoink

Nothing to do with the incident, but it kinda looks like the main side AFFI spends most of the jump geeking the reserve side camera...



Possibly indirectly related to the incident? Also, to my eye, he was still geeking the camera when the terrifying entanglement happened.

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@ 1:57 when the AFF-I releases the helmet it looks like the lines and dbag are about to entangle the students left arm and the other AFF-I has a grip on the pilot chute bridle as well?

Is it advisable to grab the bridle there as the reserve side instructor?

Seemed like the reserve side instructor almost got tangled in with the student after they finally got the main side clear....

Did the reserve side act appropriately?

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1. The setup of the mount is asking for a snag.
2. Pay attention to your student instead of goofing off and geeking the reserve side the whole time (Anyone see main side look at their altimeter even once?)
3. Don't stick your face in the path of deployment.
4. you should NEVER be perpendicular to your student on deployment (Good way to get your neck snapped if that thing cracks open and the students legs come up into your head)
5. No need for main and reserve to both wear cameras. Reserve side is the best option. Let them help keep the student stable and film while main side does their job.
6. Get someone willing to do outside video for slot? Seriously?! Anybody read USPA SIM recommendations for video flying? AFF of all things, requires a high level of video skill. Sure, if the student does great it's easy to fly with and get good footage. What about the ones that turn into a rodeo ride? Some newer jumper trying to learn how to fly video for slot could turn that rodeo into a very dangerous and possibly disastrous situation! Always use qualified video flyers for the job.
7. To the main side instructor: Pay attention to your student, not the camera! This jump is about them, not you. Use higher levels of professionalism while working and save the goofing off and geeking for your own fun jumps that you are spending your money on. Leave videoing for the reserve side while you concentrate on teaching your student the best you can.
Respect comes with experience, not the size of your gear

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Don't put your head where it is not welcome . the unwary got whipped (usually only once) when we used rip cords. Now you can have even more fun with bridles and PCs and your ego .The only footage that jm was getting was the other jm..........

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LionsGrip

Rookie question. What is inside/outside video?



Inside = a person actually participating in the skydive takes video from their perspective, meaning it won't capture the big picture, just the person's vantage point.

Outside = a dedicated camera person takes video from an "outside" vantage point. He or she does not participate in the skydive actively - his/her role is to capture the skydive from a "big picture" view.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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putting anything on your mudflap or chest strap is a bad idea. I left reserve side once with a student that didnt give a count. They ended up against my chest and the chest mount altimeter got snagged under the MLW. Could have just as easily been a reserve handle. Just instruct and don't worry about some terrible go pro perspective that is so skewed from the wide angle that it is not even accurate depiction of body position.
i'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your packing tent down

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fincher

putting anything on your mudflap or chest strap is a bad idea. I left reserve side once with a student that didnt give a count. They ended up against my chest and the chest mount altimeter got snagged under the MLW. Could have just as easily been a reserve handle. Just instruct and don't worry about some terrible go pro perspective that is so skewed from the wide angle that it is not even accurate depiction of body position.



Or you could just take it off wide mode so it isn't distorted anymore.

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JWest



Or you could just take it off wide mode so it isn't distorted anymore.



And in this one sentence, you've offered a good demonstration of "not knowing what you don't know."

Related to your other thread...how much else is there that you don't know that you don't know (yet)?

Every person who skydives for a while eventually goes through a "damn, that was really stupid of me" phase. It usually hits around 1000 jumps, and again at 3000 or so jumps. Maybe you'll be the lucky guy that never has that moment.

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DSE

***

Or you could just take it off wide mode so it isn't distorted anymore.



And in this one sentence, you've offered a good demonstration of "not knowing what you don't know."


Douglas, what does that sentence tell you that he doesn't know? Whatever it is, I don't think I know either. Some technical aspect of the GoPro?

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DSE

***

Or you could just take it off wide mode so it isn't distorted anymore.



And in this one sentence, you've offered a good demonstration of "not knowing what you don't know."

Related to your other thread...how much else is there that you don't know that you don't know (yet)?

Every person who skydives for a while eventually goes through a "damn, that was really stupid of me" phase. It usually hits around 1000 jumps, and again at 3000 or so jumps. Maybe you'll be the lucky guy that never has that moment.

From GoPros website.

"The reason GoPro videos have a slight fish-eye effect, is due to the wide angle lens on the camera. It's actually called a barrel distortion, which is a result of having the 170 degree lens. This curve/barrel distortion allows for the 170 degree ultra wide angle shots that GoPro is known for.
You can slightly reduce this effect on the HD HERO Original camera by filming in 1080p (30 FPS) mode, which brings the Field Of View (FOV) down to 127 degrees. With the HD HERO2, HERO3, HERO3+, and HERO4 camera, you also have the option at 1080p to switch to a medium (127 degrees) or narrow (90 degrees) FOV. The HERO3 White Edition camera only films video and takes photos in the WIDE FOV.

If you want to get rid of the barrel distortion or "fisheye" look of your GoPro videos, you can use GoPro Studio to import the footage and check the "Remove Fisheye" checkbox. This will allow you to export the videos without a barrel distortion or "fisheye" look."

It took 1000 jumps for some people? I guess I'm just lucky that it happen to me back before I had 100 jumps.

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