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skyh2omedic

Static line ballon jumps

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Static Lines are used to teach correct body position to students in preparation for them initiating deployment on their own. I don't see how a balloon exit would teach anything. I also dont see an approved static line anchor point on a balloon.

Get licensed, then balloon jump.

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sammielu

Static Lines are used to teach correct body position to students in preparation for them initiating deployment on their own. I don't see how a balloon exit would teach anything. I also dont see an approved static line anchor point on a balloon. Get licensed, then balloon jump.



Sammie, it's not that crazy.

A static line is simply another method of deploying a main parachute. If people wanted to pay a bunch of money, dropzones could even offer a static line first jump from a balloon.

Look at all the pilot chute assist deployments that BASE jumpers are doing. It would be very similar to that.

"skyh2omedic" is not some crazy kid trying to jump a balloon before he is ready, (although I can see how you might think that). I'm sure he will get good information before he does a static line jump from a balloon.

Static line attachment points are not "approved" in the sense of their suitability for use with a static line. If a static line attachment point is "permanently" installed on an aircraft, it may need aircraft "alteration" approval and documentation.

Here's an interesting question. What would the emergency procedures be for if the student got tangled in the static line and was "in tow"? Land the balloon.

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peek

***Static Lines are used to teach correct body position to students in preparation for them initiating deployment on their own. I don't see how a balloon exit would teach anything. I also dont see an approved static line anchor point on a balloon. Get licensed, then balloon jump.



Sammie, it's not that crazy.

A static line is simply another method of deploying a main parachute. If people wanted to pay a bunch of money, dropzones could even offer a static line first jump from a balloon.

Look at all the pilot chute assist deployments that BASE jumpers are doing. It would be very similar to that.

"skyh2omedic" is not some crazy kid trying to jump a balloon before he is ready, (although I can see how you might think that). I'm sure he will get good information before he does a static line jump from a balloon.

Static line attachment points are not "approved" in the sense of their suitability for use with a static line. If a static line attachment point is "permanently" installed on an aircraft, it may need aircraft "alteration" approval and documentation.

Here's an interesting question. What would the emergency procedures be for if the student got tangled in the static line and was "in tow"? Land the balloon.

But the BASE jumpers do it slider down/off.
I'm not sure I would want to try it with a sky main with slider.
But, I don't know, it may work fine

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riggerrob

Shhhhhh!
Don't tell that to the millions of British military para-troopers who started their careers by jumping from barrage balloons.



This. I think they had a trap door in the middle. These were round parachutes on PD bags.
U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

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I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to try and static line from a balloon with the same type of gear that is used to make static line jumps from airplanes. When you make a static line jump from an airplane, you have 100mph wind to snatch the pilot chute. The spring loaded pilot chutes used in the static line gear I've seen probably wouldn't work well at slow speeds.

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megamalfunction

When you make a static line jump from an airplane, you have 100mph wind to snatch the pilot chute



Of course you (and another earlier poster) were thinking about the pilot chute assist style static line setup, while there's also the direct bag style with no pilot chute to worry about. Different styles are better known in different places.

A super low airspeed opening with a slider-up canopy isn't something a lot of people have experience with.

Although plenty of slider up jumps are done at fairly low speed, with a bit more airflow -- e.g., low speed cutaway from a student canopy in line twists, breaks set, with RSL or even nowadays a MARD for a more static line like experience.

I could see that a very low speed opening might be a little messier, without a lot of tension on lines due to low aerodynamic forces, and be more likely to have line twists than at higher speed. (But still probably less than with direct bag static lines out of an aircraft.) If one isn't static lining high performance canopies out of the balloon, not a huge deal.

Still that's just guesswork.

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megamalfunction

Maybe a BaseR container with a static line made for base jumping might work?

http://www.jumpshack.com/baser.htm

https://www.apexbase.com/accessories/static-line-take-away-system



You don't need to buy that stuff from Apex, you can build something like it from a old lineset that will work just as good.
Even old-must-be-replaced spectra lines can be used if you only want to make one jump with it.

But still, a PCA is pretty much the same as a static line.
I don't think the gear and gizmos will be the issue, if you go head low in the exit your feet may tangle with the lines.
And it wont matter if it's a PCA, Apex static line or home built, if it's a Baser or not. It won't be good.

A head up exit, 'frankenstein', can make it safer.

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Military balloons have 3-sided baskets. May they have a strap across the 4th side. At most they have a door that is only waist-high. A side door exit is the most realistic if your long-term goal is teaching g them how to jump out of airplanes.
Modern, civilian hot-air balloons tend to hang a step outside the basket. The step is about a foot wide and most of the width of the basket. The distance from the lip of the basket to the step is the same as the instep of a short, adult female.

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...

But still, a PCA is pretty much the same as static-line.

...........................................................................................

Key point: buddy needs to maintain a tight grip on your pilot-chute until you reach line-stretch.

At low airspeeds, a pilot-chute may or may not provide enough drag to unstow lines from rubber bands. Even line tension is important to avoid tension knots .... doubly so on round canopies.

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sammielu

All I'm saying is: I don't think my rating covers that. The entanglement factor freaks me out too. As a Static Line Instructor, its my job to put you out safely, and I don't see a way to do that from a balloon.



.......................................................................................

Rather easy to avoid entanglements. Just use the same logic as when dropping static-liners from airplanes.
Start by anchoring the static-line to a solid part of the airframe .... are ..... basket.
Ceiling-mounted anchors reduce tripping and entangling of static-lines with feet.
May I suggest anchoring the static-line to the top of the frame, where the balloon's suspension lines attach?
A locking carbiner (Maillon Rapide 10) can easily attach up there.

As the jumper climbs over the edge of basket, the jump-master's duty is to ensure that the static-line remains clear of his arms and legs. Once the jumper is poised on the step, the JM traces the S/L one more time to confirm there are no entanglements and wishes the jumper a happy jump.
How does that process differ from dropping S/L students from a Cessna?

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My concerns are:
-engineering a smooth climb out with the static line routed out of the way
-preventing student-static line entanglements on an unstable release into minimal or no relative wind
-spring-loaded pilot chute deployment at low speeds (mentioned above)
-wrapping all of that up into a student's progression with goals and performance expectations

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Why are you all so stuck with spring loaded PC?
You can use a normal throw out with static line, we did that a few years ago when we had both AFF and static line.
It was much easier to change a throw out to static line than the other way around because of the spring.

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sammielu

In my limited SLI experience I've only used ripcord & spring loaded pilot chute gear :)



........................................................................................

Old school.
Try to look at the bigger picture. There are a dozen ways to rig static-lines.
Since 1940, most military jumpers have used direct-bag static-lines. The static-line is clipped to an anchor cable running along the ceiling. Excess S/L is stowed in rubber bands on the outside, top of the container.
The canopy is packed into a d-bag that is tied to the S/L. After the jumper falls away, the S/L and D-bag trail behind the aircraft.
Because the S/L is anchored to the ceiling, (above the jumper's head) the jump-master only needs a second or two to confirm that the S/L is clear of arms and legs and necks and yell "GO!"

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....
-wrapping all of that up into a student's progression with goals and performance expectations

....................................................................................

Really depends what your long-term goals are. For half a century, the British Army had great success starting g para-troopers with S/L jumps from balloons. The primary reason they used balloons was because barrage balloons were readily available and less expensive to operate than airplanes.
From a psychological perspective, balloons reduced stress on students. By removing loud noises and time-pressure from the lesson, students had fewer things to worry about.
Once a para-trooper had mastered the basics of a "jab" exit, side-slipping and PLFs, then instructors could "layer on" loud airplanes, time pressure, rucksacks, rifles and snowshoes.

Fast forward to today, many first jump students are scared because their first jump is also their first flight in a cramped, noisy Cessna. Remove two or three stressors and you improve student performance during their first jump.
If your primary goal is to train BASE jumpers, balloons are perfect because they fly at low speeds and eliminate worries about off-heading openings and cliff strikes.

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I would do direct-bag static. Probably not roll th enose, and NOT use a fast canopy.

Not hilly country, and at least 4000ft exit.

In this scenario, there is no pilot chute, you should have at least a 1000ft fall for the main to open, and if not, enough alti to do EP.

Hookup point should be strong, and have a hook knife in the balloon, same as in the plane, with a jumpmaster helping you climb out.

Two cents.
You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

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