Working in NZ / Australia

[nzdan 0]

What are the requirements for aff/tandem/videot in NZ and Oz?
What are the popular manufacturer ratings for tandem down there? Do they still do outside video or will I need handcam exp? I'm looking at getting ratings and some experience in the US then heading down under to instruct full time.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Children in the dark cause accidents, accidents in the dark cause children.

[Squeak 17]

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What are the requirements for aff/tandem/videot in NZ and Oz?
What are the popular manufacturer ratings for tandem down there? Do they still do outside video or will I need handcam exp? I'm looking at getting ratings and some experience in the US then heading down under to instruct full time.

Any advice would be appreciated.

www.apf.asn.au

Everything you need to kow

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[nigel99 402]

Be aware of the difference in the US and Australian instructor ratings. I know someone with over 5000 jumps who is really struggling to get her uspa rating recognised as anything over an instructor D.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[dirtbox 0]

Depends on experience... Took me 2 months to convert my aff and tandem ratings over from USPa to apf whole process is a joke and terribly slow however they say it is under review, it also cost over 600 dollars... All I had to do was pay my money and sit an exam....

[Andy9o8 2]

One thing everyone, from any country, should always investigate before seeking skydiving-related employment in any other country is the host country's visa laws regarding employment. Many countries require you to have a specific type of visa or other official permission, beyond just a tourist visa, in order to lawfully do anything that qualifies as employment for compensation - technically, even something like packing or helping out around the DZ in exchange for jumps or being allowed to sleep in the hangar. This should be among the earliest part of your pre-trip planning.

[ChrisHoward 8]

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One thing everyone, from any country, should always investigate before seeking skydiving-related employment in any other country is the host country's visa laws regarding employment. Many countries require you to have a specific type of visa or other official permission, beyond just a tourist visa, in order to lawfully do anything that qualifies as employment for compensation - technically, even something like packing or helping out around the DZ in exchange for jumps or being allowed to sleep in the hangar. This should be among the earliest part of your pre-trip planning.

It should also be noted that most countries do not consider sub-contractors as on-going/permanent employment which is the basis of any work VISA. There are ways around it of course but be careful of your wording for your application.

[Andy9o8 2]

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One thing everyone, from any country, should always investigate before seeking skydiving-related employment in any other country is the host country's visa laws regarding employment. Many countries require you to have a specific type of visa or other official permission, beyond just a tourist visa, in order to lawfully do anything that qualifies as employment for compensation - technically, even something like packing or helping out around the DZ in exchange for jumps or being allowed to sleep in the hangar. This should be among the earliest part of your pre-trip planning.

It should also be noted that most countries do not consider sub-contractors as on-going/permanent employment which is the basis of any work VISA. .

That's beside the point, which is that any kind of employment for any kind of compensation, even of a temporary or transitory nature, may have certain laws, rules or regulations that restrict it. It varies from one country to another; there is no one blanket rule that applies to all countries.

You cannot just presume what rule does or does not apply before checking it out carefully.
You must check out what applies to your particular situation in the particular host country you're visiting before your trip. Doing anything less than that is not adequate pre-trip planning, and could get you into a world of grief in the country you're visiting if you do the wrong thing, even if unintentionally.

[mik 2]

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One thing everyone, from any country, should always investigate before seeking skydiving-related employment in any other country is the host country's visa laws regarding employment. Many countries require you to have a specific type of visa or other official permission, beyond just a tourist visa, in order to lawfully do anything that qualifies as employment for compensation - technically, even something like packing or helping out around the DZ in exchange for jumps or being allowed to sleep in the hangar. This should be among the earliest part of your pre-trip planning.

It should also be noted that most countries do not consider sub-contractors as on-going/permanent employment which is the basis of any work VISA. .

That's beside the point, which is that any kind of employment for any kind of compensation, even of a temporary or transitory nature, may have certain laws, rules or regulations that restrict it. It varies from one country to another; there is no one blanket rule that applies to all countries.

You cannot just presume what rule does or does not apply before checking it out carefully.
You must check out what applies to your particular situation in the particular host country you're visiting before your trip. Doing anything less than that is not adequate pre-trip planning, and could get you into a world of grief in the country you're visiting if you do the wrong thing, even if unintentionally.

As I understand things, one of the main concerns for many developed countries is that of people either overstaying their visa or working when they should not (I have been arrested on entry to Africa due to an immigration offical's error - stamping the wrong visa on a previous visit - that seemed to indicate I had overstayed a visa on a previous visit. It only took an hour or two to resolve, but it was not the most pleasant of experiences). If caught doing either (overstaying or working), this could result in visas for other countries being refused

So a poor decision in one place could have long lasting and far reaching consequences. It really is worth spending time to make sure that local laws are not breached.

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[nigel99 402]

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Depends on experience... Took me 2 months to convert my aff and tandem ratings over from USPa to apf whole process is a joke and terribly slow however they say it is under review, it also cost over 600 dollars... All I had to do was pay my money and sit an exam....

They were very happy to give her Instructor D, but she really wants and in some respects needs her IB. It probably doesn't matter, unless you want to teach first jump courses, or be DZSO etc. But it is worth being aware of.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Erroll 79]

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I have been arrested on entry to Africa due to an immigration offical's error...

Did you not have a VISA for Africa? Or were you travelling with Sarah Palin?

[mik 2]

Visa issued on arrival.

The issue was an immigration had stamped the wrong exit visa on one of the 20 or so previous visits. Which led "the system" to believe i had overstayed the visa on a previous visit. The cause is not the issue here.. the point was that an suspected infringement was taken pretty seriously

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[jerry81 10]

Back to the original issue...

I received my NZ work visa for contracting my services as a TI and photographer, so at least over here, being a contractor as opposed to a regular employee is not a problem.

Getting all my paperwork done took about a few hours of online exams, 1-2 weeks of waiting and around 400-500NZD. I basically had to get everything, from a regular parachutist D license, tandem instructor (with Vector/Sigma endorsement) rating, to the newly invented 'Commercial Parachutist' license.

The medical (sure, my EU Class2 holds no weight here) was an extra 300NZD... however, a few months ago, the CAA changed its rules to include a paperwork fee in addition to the doctor's fees, bringing the cost up to approximately 600NZD.

In the most recent classifieds ad on this site, the dz where I work was accepting applications from people with a minimum of 1000 tandems and 500 camera jumps. Requirements for other places may vary, of course.

Getting back to the visa: I researched both New Zealand and Oz - the former seemed a lot simpler to get. The whole process took just about 4 weeks, but that was helped along by the fact that my employer had an 'Approval in principle'. Otherwise, I would say 2 months would be a more realistic estimate if you're going for a long-term work visa where medicals and police checks are needed. From what I hear from friends who only spend the summer here, the shorter 6-month visas take less time.

Finally, although outside video is still alive and well, handcam experience is a must, especially if you're looking at any of the smaller operators, and having multiple ratings (say, Sigma and Strong, to cover the most common used systems) can only mean more opportunities for you.

[nzdan 0]

Thanks for the info.
I'm a NZ and Australian citizen so visas won't be an issue.

By the time I head down I'll have all my ratings, around 1000 jumps total, 300 camera but likely less than 100 tandems. Can I realistically find an instructor position or will I have to start on a packing mat waiting for a slot to open up?

Thanks

Children in the dark cause accidents, accidents in the dark cause children.

[Squeak 17]

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Thanks for the info.
I'm a NZ and Australian citizen so visas won't be an issue.

By the time I head down I'll have all my ratings, around 1000 jumps total, 300 camera but likely less than 100 tandems. Can I realistically find an instructor position or will I have to start on a packing mat waiting for a slot to open up?

Thanks

it will depend entirely on the DZ.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[talon2 0]

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Depends on experience... Took me 2 months to convert my aff and tandem ratings over from USPa to apf whole process is a joke and terribly slow however they say it is under review, it also cost over 600 dollars... All I had to do was pay my money and sit an exam....

Not what others have experienced.Take us through the whole process you endured

[AdD 1]

Just do your rating in NZ or AU, transfer is a big hassle, 3 weeks and a couple hundred dollars minimum.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[dirtbox 0]

Break down of my costs (without looking them up)
APF membership (valid for 8 months) $230?
E lic application $35?
Display D $60
Display B $60
Wingsuit crest $35?
Startcrest $35?
Foreign conversion exam/instructor ratings $99

total = $554 plus anything im forgetting and jumping expenses and time not working.

The Display B rating I realistically had to earn (I didnt hold a USPA Pro rating or CSPA EJR to sign over) so fair enough.

I dont remember if I had to fill in forms/pay additonal application fees for the processing of my instructor D or packer B ratings.

I was allowed to carry over my FAA class 2 medical that was 20 days old otherwise you are up for that, not sure if there was a fee for the APF processing that.

I have about 6 different plastic cards, each one adding one new endorsement at a time.


There was also untold amounts of mucking around including 1 display into a golf course and 4 displays into a school, though they were fun and I did learn a bit from them.

Regarding the time frame, I have communicated with the APF and leave that there (I also get the impression my circumstances were not typical)

All in all my experience, and please keep in mind that this is just my experience, was a bit of an adventure. I was lucky that some people (CIs/DZOs/managers) really bent over backward to help for no real gain to themselves (so to those people, thanks).


RE work in Aus- there seems to be plenty of work around though some of it is def who you know. The experience of staff here is very high (most of the staff where I currently work have more tandems that I have total jumps with all but three staff having 4k+ jumps)

Also, and it is just something I heard from someone who used to live/work in NZ, NZ may not be accept skydiver as a skilled occupation much longer ...but consider that a rumour

Dave

[dirtbox 0]

Yeh I just got my ID...I am still, relatively speaking, green and Id rather be jumping than teaching FJC or DZSO (and there are other more experienced jumpers who can od that better than I)...that said, when I did my AFF rating being able to teach FJC was a part of it and we were assessed on it. I had also been doing part of an FJC at another DZ for a whole season once or twice a month so not being able to do that seemed like a step backward...

One CI pointed out that it was hard for them too because if they employ a foreign instructor they can't use them to teach FJC/DZSO which is what it sounds like it happening to the person you are talking about (very experienced skydiver employed for reasons X, Y and Z but can't be fully utilized by the employer...


eh maybe I am just a whining twat.... maybe im not :S (though I evidently have nothing better to do on a Friday night )

[nigel99 402]

I don't understand why it has to be an IB to teach the fjc, USPA a cach can do the fjc.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I don't understand why it has to be an IB to teach the fjc, USPA a cach can do the fjc.

Only the non-method specific parts. An instructor rated in the specific method used must teach the portions related to that method. The IRM suggests those portions are:

(1) equipment familiarization as it pertains to the first jump
(2) basic canopy control
(3) parachute emergency procedures
(4) landings and landing emergencies (obstacles)
(5) aircraft emergencies for students cleared to freefall self-supervision and who have
completed the Category E aircraft briefing in the USPA Integrated Student Program

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[koppel 4]

Something to remember here folks with regards to the costs...

If you held a certificate for another job... say in the mining industry or off-shore drilling and you move to another country and require said certificates I expect in most cases you need to pay some money to go and do the whole induction training etc again as each country has diffent rules and requirements.

Also when you consider at the APF are regarded highly for their systems and processes you need to remember that such systems cost money and whilst the USPA or other larger administration bodies have tens of thousands of people to fund their costs the APF has probably less than three thousand people... The maths is easy from there as to why the costs may be a bit steeper than in other countries

2 cents worth if you care to pick it up

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[DARK 0]

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The maths is easy from there as to why the costs may be a bit steeper than in other countries

Its understandable that you would think that but its not really true. The apf gets $30 from every apf dz for every tandem they do. The company I worked for owns numerous dzs and just one of them was sending $500k a year to the apf in fees for this alone.

Also their materials are seriously dated, my packer b exam included questions on fxc's and the original cutaway system before 3 rings came about. That is just pure laziness on their part.

edit; their 'thesis' programme for people who want to become chief instructors is a great idea though and as a result the apf has the best intro to freefly, intro to crw etc booklets I have seen from anywhere

[koppel 4]

Fair comments

If I may point out that the APF 'wholesale' student membership which for the larger Multi-DZ owners results in a good mark up from the rate they pay to the 'retail' rate charged to the tandem customer.

The exams are under review and have been updated over recent times and appear to be still undergoing improvements.

I am not sure when you did your Packer B of course but I am aware that fxc's were still present in my area about 18 months ago and may still be as well as in other areas so still relevant to the exam.

Also it is good to know where we have come from as that can help people understand how we got to where we are.

Certainly not the cheapest federation but by no means the most expensive either :)

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[chris74 0]

Hey,
Aussies and kiwis rock
Euhhh, I am looking for a winter position !!!!
So if you are interested in hiring me ;-)
Blue sky
Chris

[chemist 0]

what is the best option to make some money skydiving down under for someone approaching their D license? I would love to film tandems at one of the tandem mills on the coast but I feel like they will only take high experience jumpers and probably need like some connections to film tandem there. Is it best to start with an instructor D, and try and go into teaching from there because there are so many AFF students here?