Coach Jumps

[peedeepalmer 0]

I have a coach rating and have been coaching since May just about every weekend. My question is what creative dive flows do other coaches/AFF's do with a student that has finished his student progression and now has a few extra jumps before the required 25. I have played tag with students (working on level changes and flying relative) but am looking for other dive flows that still allow the student to learn but is fun. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated

[peek 20]

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I have a coach rating and have been coaching since May just about every weekend. My question is what creative dive flows do other coaches/AFF's do with a student that has finished his student progression and now has a few extra jumps before the required 25. I have played tag with students (working on level changes and flying relative) but am looking for other dive flows that still allow the student to learn but is fun. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated

I think different exits create the most fun.

If their progression has not yet included exiting with the wind at their back, as in a "sit-fly" exit, they are almost sure to enjoy that.

Also, sitting in the door of an airplane like a Caravan or Otter and falling backwards "scuba style" is fun. Of course a 2 person "tube" dive is fun. (Be careful.)

For a small Cessna, going "down the side" is an idea.

You can act like an AFF student and tell them that they are going to be in the instructor position and hold onto you on exit. It is an interesting role reversal if they trained via AFF.

A favorite freefall formation of mine is doing a 2-way compressed accordian, and having one of you backloop while the other is doing a frontloop. Teaches timing and teamwork for sure. Then do some 360s while still docked.

And of course there is a tracking dive, but don't track so much as do a forward motion and stay really close together. This will be a challenge for both of you.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

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a few extra jumps before the required 25

I am a big proponent of those jumps being H&Ps focusing exclusively on canopy skill drills. Many if the canopy tasks for the A-license are "do once" tasks. Most students would benefit from practicing them!

Here is a basic (and incomplete) list of skills suitable for these jumps:

--braked flight
--flat turns (aka: braked turns)
--riser turns
--toggle stalls & recovery
--rear riser stalls & recovery
--flying predictable pattern
--landing accuracy

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[Squeak 17]

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I have a coach rating and have been coaching since May just about every weekend. My question is what creative dive flows do other coaches/AFF's do with a student that has finished his student progression and now has a few extra jumps before the required 25. I have played tag with students (working on level changes and flying relative) but am looking for other dive flows that still allow the student to learn but is fun. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated

Have a read through this, this is the APF's requirement for our "B" licence
http://www.apf.asn.au/ArticleDocuments/114/PTE%20Certificate%20B%2020100816.pdf.aspx

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[davelepka 4]

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My question is what creative dive flows do other coaches/AFF's do with a student that has finished his student progression and now has a few extra jumps before the required 25.

How about you ask them what they want to do? Maybe ask what was their favorite part of the progression thus far, and go further with that skill. Conversely, what did they feel was their weakest performance, and then tune that up to a higher standard.

In the end, it's their money and their jump. These jumpers have been cleared to self-supervise, and really don't need a coach at all, they could just bang out solos to finish off their A license requirements. Let them decide what they want to do.

[JohnMitchell 14]

On my son's 24th and 25th jump he coached my on my sitflying. I learned a lot from him.

[nigel99 143]

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My question is what creative dive flows do other coaches/AFF's do with a student that has finished his student progression and now has a few extra jumps before the required 25.

How about you ask them what they want to do? Maybe ask what was their favorite part of the progression thus far, and go further with that skill. Conversely, what did they feel was their weakest performance, and then tune that up to a higher standard.

In the end, it's their money and their jump. These jumpers have been cleared to self-supervise, and really don't need a coach at all, they could just bang out solos to finish off their A license requirements. Let them decide what they want to do.

I prefer squeaks suggestion of the apf B rel tables. While it is exciting to be allowed to do virtually anything on a USPA A license, you don't have much skill. If they are paying a coach for the jump then getting good solid foundation skills can only he good. Tracking, fall rate, rw or ff basics would also be good.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[peedeepalmer 0]

Thanks to everyone that posted suggestions. I especially like the idea of adding more canopy skills to the mix. I will take a close look at the AFP table.

At my dropzone, if a student prepays for the entire program, they get all coach jumps until jump 25. I don't want to waste their money, want to teach them additional foundation skills but still want them to have the added bonus of having lots of fun.

Thanks again to everyone that responded

[davelepka 4]

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While it is exciting to be allowed to do virtually anything on a USPA A license, you don't have much skill.

I'm not suggesting that you do 'nothing', but that when it comes to choosing what skill to work on, leave it up to the student.

Instead of saying, 'OK, we'll exit like this....', try asking, 'How would you like to exit?', and then train them on the best way to exit how they want. Ditto for the freefall.

These jumpers have spent every jump doing what everyone else tells them to in an effort to fill out the A license card, once they have all of the requirements met short of the jump numbers, give them a chance to 'take the wheel' and have some control over their jump.

Truthfully, I also support pre-license students doing a couple of solos mixed in with the coach jumps. They're cleared to self-supervise, but the coach program doesn't give them an opportunity to exercise that.

When I learned to skydive, I was proud of myself for being able to do something that not many people could do, and that scared the shit out of me in the beginning. While I always remember my first jump, the other jump that stands out from those days was the first time I jumped on my own. I was on a modified static-line/AFF program, so it would have been my 6th or 7th jump and in addition to jumping solo, it was also my first jump from an Otter and my first jump with no radio. While the accomplishment of making my first jump was huge, making my first true 'solo' stands out to me just as much.

People seem to react so sharply to the suggestion of new rules or regulation, shouting, 'Nanny state, nanny state, don't tell me how to skydive, I'm an adult and can make my own decisions', but then they'll turn right around literally nanny the students for 25 straight jumps. Jumps 1 through 10, they need it. Jumps 10 through 15, not so much, and really, past jump 15 they should be given some options, and allowed to take some responsibility for planning their own skydives.

[nigel99 143]

Thanks for detail Dave. I didn't think you meant do nothing, was just trying to clarify the detail.

Solo jumps are very important I agree. Interesting that this dz provides the coach jumps as part of the package. Maybe offering a solo or hop and pop where the coaching is a video and debrief of the canopy flight is an option?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Deisel 35]

One other thing - be careful to not try and challenge yourself here. I see plenty of instructors get bored and want to change things up for their own sake. Remember that no matter how many times you've done it the student has not. What may seem simple and routine may be quite complex and unusual for your student. This happenes to us all in some degree at some point. It's our job to recognize when it's happening and fix it.

D

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[ufk22 32]

One drill dive for 2-way is what I call the "california bimbo" (don't ask).
Use any exit your student wants to work on, then face off and;
2-way touch grip, I turn and they sidebody me, 2-way,they turn and I sidebody them,repeat sequence with oposite turns, 2-way, I turn and they cat on me, 2 way, they turn and I cat on them. The grips are all just touch and go.
It is all infacing points until the cat on them and lets them work on turns, fall rate and holding their position while having enough challenge to be more than just a "drill dive". It seems to build a lot of confidence in the student as they can usually get through the entire sequence. How much I help out with fall rate or slide issues depends on the student, but usually I just make the initial adjustment in my fall rate to match them and let the rest of the dive flow on it's own so they have to do the flying.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[holie 0]

Hey,

ever heared of W.A.R.P? (worldwide approved relative work program)
Give it a try...

[williammonk 0]

I like to mix it up with them. I'll dive out the door they chase me, dock. Then I chase them, dock. They try and make it hard on me, great fun.

Show them floating exits, try and get them ready for some good rw with other jumpers.

I like the dive-chase-dock drill. While they have fun doing it, they will gain confidence getting into a formation which worries lots of new guys.

Just gotta mix it up.

To the guys who say "ask the student"
I always ask the students what they want to do. Most students draw a blank. Lots of them don't know what they want to do. Over time they will have ideas, but I really see a lot that just have been doing their own thing on solos and need new ideas.

William.

[love1234hate 0]

Just curious, does your dropzone also pay the coaches 25 bucks plus slot. I have had the misfortune of jumping at a certain dz that does just that.

[fencebuster 7]

I pay $25 per jump for coaches, except for CAT F; in CAT F, all the coach does is put the student out, so I give them a free jump.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[Krip 2]

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Just curious, does your dropzone also pay the coaches 25 bucks plus slot. I have had the misfortune of jumping at a certain dz that does just that.

Hi Love.

Some dz's may charge a fee for coaching a slot and $25.

Weather the coach gets the $25. Is another issue.

FWIW we used to pay our own slots and coach for free. Then USPA came up with the coach rating, 100 jump minimum.

Try a search on the subject on this website on the subject.

Some coach's a re worth the money. Some aren't.

Some genders don't have to pay a fee to jump with friends.

Just the way it is.