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BMFin

AFF instructor salary

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We need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump.






SHHHHH.....don't wake the pilots! ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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We need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump.






SHHHHH.....don't wake the pilots! ;)



Relax, they can't hear shit while wearing those David Clarks.:D
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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how much is AFF lvl 1 usually like 200 bucks? Well that is 3 slots for 75 dollars. Gear rental for 25 dollars, that leaves 100 dollars. 40 dollars each instructor and that leaves 20 dollars for the dropzone.

Levels with 1 instructor should reflect a 65 dollar drop in price (slot of instructor + instructor pay).

The DZ is making money on the slots and the gear rental. Pay varies so your math is a touch off. Many DZ's are making pretty good $$ on student programs.

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You will make more with a union, too bad you'll have to pay the union 2x what your raise was. Unions don't work, look at the auto industry....

My union got me a very large raise, thank you. My dues are a very small percentage of that.

Unions and management have had to learn to cooperate from time to time, but life is a never ending battle between capital and labor. Unions used to be much stronger in our country and jobs paid better. Things have gone downhill the past 3 decades or so for the average working person. Do you like your 5 day work weeks, your paid vacation and other benefits. Thank the labor unions for making those things standard.

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Do you like your 5 day work weeks, your paid vacation and other benefits. Thank the labor unions for making those things standard.



Just watch this video B| A persiflage of Monty Python, heh heh.
As far as I see it the vid was first made by Australian unions, watch here.

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My union got me a very large raise, thank you. My dues are a very small percentage of that.


Same with me, I cannot complain. Only about folks who profit from what the unions achieve without participating in any strikes, demonstrations, negotiations etc, take the subsequent raise for granted and complain about "them unions that always make such a fuss" >:(
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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Unions used to be much stronger in our country and jobs paid better. Things have gone downhill the past 3 decades or so for the average working person.***

And there is the problem. Times have changed, as has the country, as well as the workforce. The unions have not.

Once upon a time unions were very necessary in this country. As were many laws that were enacted at the time they were needed. Our problem is that we can never seem to let go and update the laws for the current circumstances.
The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

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Unions used to be much stronger in our country and jobs paid better. Things have gone downhill the past 3 decades or so for the average working person.***

And there is the problem. Times have changed, as has the country, as well as the workforce. The unions have not.

Once upon a time unions were very necessary in this country. As were many laws that were enacted at the time they were needed. Our problem is that we can never seem to let go and update the laws for the current circumstances.

Yes, times HAVE changed. Companies are using Chapter 11 laws to bust unions and void pension agreements while giving bonuses to top executives. The progress unions made is taken for granted by too many people. Witness the rise of so many part-time, minimum wage, no-benefits jobs replacing good jobs.

Walmart - Treats their employees like shit, yet the Waltons are filthy stinking rich.

Costco - Treats their employees very well, with benefits, pensions and decent pay. Their CEO makes 2.2 million a year, chump change in this day and age, but that should be plenty for anyone.

The world used to be very different, but the unions forced change. We're sliding back in the wrong direction today. [:/]

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China doesn't have unions.:o But Nikes are still expensive.

The unions in the USA have changed since the days of Jimmy Hoffa, they have to be competitive with the non union shops to get the job so no more feather bedding: oiler & opeator for every compresssor etc.

YMMV due to local conditions like NYC.
One Jump Wonder

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$40 for each AFFI out of a Cessna. Never figured why main should get more??? We both do gear checks and teach on the way up. While main side 'might' do more work, the reserve side in a Cessna leaves with max grips so is the one to stay in a cluster $%#@& exit. Plus I have pulled my share from the reserve side. :P

steveOrino

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Your pay isn't based on what is fair. Your pay is based on what the market will allow. That is why some basketball players make millions while most teachers make 30-50/year.

It isn't about what you SHOULD be paid. Its about what you CAN GET. Realize that, and you will be able to see the picture clearly.

IMHO

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Were you replying to me?

If so, why? If not, your point is well taken, but so what? Perhaps I should have read all the pages, as I don't know what the posts are about rather than AFF salaries




No, just a general comment to the entire thread.

We get these types of threads in Pilot forums too. Everyone gets very emotional because they fail to realize what I posted (or dont want to believe it).

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I've seen drozpones pay as little as $30 (USD) either side (and for tandems) and I've seen dropzones that paid as high as $45 for maini-side (with the responsibility of briefing/training the category and responsible for conducting the debrief). It varies wildly.

I've worked at dropzones that pay $35 per student (maximum five students) for teaching the FJC ground course and I've worked at a dropzone that pays a minimum of $50 and another $30 per student on top of that. Again, it varies wildly.

Chuck

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I've worked at dropzones that pay $35 per student (maximum five students) for teaching the FJC ground course and I've worked at a dropzone that pays a minimum of $50 and another $30 per student on top of that. Again, it varies wildly.

I've worked at DZ's that pay way less. I avoid teaching the class more than once a year. [:/]

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I've worked at dropzones that pay $35 per student (maximum five students) for teaching the FJC ground course and I've worked at a dropzone that pays a minimum of $50 and another $30 per student on top of that. Again, it varies wildly.

I've worked at DZ's that pay way less. I avoid teaching the class more than once a year. [:/]



I have been to a LOT of dropzones that have one or two people who ALWAYS teach the FJC. Whether it's because that's what they like or simply because they are too old, out of shape, or out of practice to be doing the actual work jumps. Still, they feel a need to stay as connected to the sport as possible. I find nothing wrong with that, generally, but I do feel it's important for every Instructor to teach at least a couple of FJC ground courses per year.

Chuck

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Totally agree. I tried to organize this 5 yrs. ago. Got 0 support. Most instructors haven't the stones to stand up to DZO's and they know it. Most instructors will cut each other's throats for an extra jump. Would be nice to see some comradarie and support for other's. Doubt I will live long enough for that to happen. Hate to be so negative on this, I agree it's a pathetic situation but, it would take a larger picture mentality that I don't believe will ever exist. I personally will find a place that can accomodate my needs or I will simply quit being an instructor and go make some money for fun jumps.

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Most instructors haven't the stones to stand up to DZO's and they know it.



I doubt that's the reason it didn't work.

Unions are for people who hate their job. They'll strike because they don't care about building cars or houses or whatever. The job sucks and the money is the only reason to be there. None of them would mind losing their job as long as they could make the same money doing something else.

Skydiving instructors are different. They want to do that one specific job, and the money is a secondary benefit. Yes, you need the money to live, but if someone offered you a different job making the same (little) money, you wouldn't do it because then you wouldn't be jumping.

It's not tough to make the same amount of money as a skydiving instructor working outside of the DZ. In fact, you can actually make steady money, with benefits, and maybe even a 410K. The reason that instructors don't just get those jobs is that they want to jump, and that puts a damper on your ability to negotiate the working conditions. You want to jump, and if you don't to the point that you're willing to go on strike and risk losing the job in the sky, there are others out there who do want to jump.

Supply and demand, plain and simple.

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The smartest thing I ever did was to stop trying to make a living skydiving. I fly airplanes for a living instead. I jump for fun. I love to teach and all the money I make pays for my fun jumps, equipment and my wife's jumps. I have a self supporting hobby.

I don't worry about all the DZ politics, I just show up and do a good job. The rest takes care of itself. Plus, I don't live in a house with wheels anymore.

Flying is fun, so it really doesn't feel like work and the pay isn't bad for a guy who only has a high school edjucation.

;)

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I'd agree with that. I made over twice my current salary at a job in the high-tech industry. I skydive now for a living. I could pretty easily get a job again in the 'real world' for 20-50k more than I am making now. Yet I'm still living in a trailer on the dz. I don't particularly want to go back to the 'real world'.

If I get injured or physically can't skydive any more, I'll go get a real job with a 401k and health insurance. But I am not in any rush to do so. Quality of life ...

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I love to teach and all the money I make pays for my fun jumps, equipment and my wife's jumps. I have a self supporting hobby.

I don't worry about all the DZ politics, I just show up and do a good job. The rest takes care of itself.



Bingo! That's the key to "making it"!
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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....If I get injured or physically can't skydive any more, I'll go get a real job with a 401k and health insurance. But I am not in any rush to do so. Quality of life ...

While it may not be true in your case, there is a sad underbelly to skydiving. That is, that a young person falls in love with the sport, blows off school/job/etc. and decides to become a "professional" skydiver. 2/3 years into said life he/she will have lost forever, the ability to get up in the morning, roll over, turn off the alarm, and go to work for 8-9 hours. 6-8 years later, while living out of a 1956 Pontiac station wagon, the "where's the brass ring" question is likely to occupy a lot of this person's thinking. I have seen a lot of burnout in these folks, but rarely with the part-timers.
If you leave the plane without a parachute, you will be fine for the rest of your life.

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