BMFin 0 #1 October 23, 2012 I would be interested to hear what do AFF instructors get paid at different DZ´s ? Im not an instructor yet so I would be interested to hear also what are the different tasks: 1) holding a course 2) level jump 3) something else? Thanks! PS. I know there are some threads about this, but since many of them are so old, I thought of asking this once more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 1 #2 October 23, 2012 QuoteI would be interested to hear what do AFF instructors get paid at different DZ´s ? Im not an instructor yet so I would be interested to hear also what are the different tasks: 1) holding a course 2) level jump 3) something else? Thanks! PS. I know there are some threads about this, but since many of them are so old, I thought of asking this once more. You're probably not going to get a whole lot of responses from this one... I get the same pay if I do a FJC, a level jump or a tandem video. Tandem-I pays less unless you pack the rig yourself."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #3 October 23, 2012 In Finland? Can't help you there. In the US, I've seen anywhere from $15 to $25 per strudent to teach the FJC, and between $25 and $35 for the actual jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #4 October 23, 2012 FJC - $100 - $25 additional per person over 4 Jump - $25 to $45 per jump $25 if you just do the jump $35 if both instructors do prejump/debrief $45 if you do both prejump/debrief alone Other - Packing lessons - Case of Beer Addtional Ground Prep - No charge Recurrency - unless it's a long one No Charge / beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 0 #5 October 26, 2012 $USD FJC - $60 first person - $30 additional per person. Jump 1-instructor $30 if you just do the jump Jump 2-instructors $30 for main side (you do the complete briefing/debriefing) $15 for reserve sideWe're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 9 #6 October 27, 2012 Our DZ pays $35 for main or reserve side, doesn't matter. We also split up and share the work instead of insisting one person do it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites psychoswooper 0 #7 October 28, 2012 Our DZ pays $40 on 1 JM levels and $40/$25 on 2 JM levels. JM who does ground prep gets the $40 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Para5-0 0 #8 November 4, 2012 We need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 9 #9 November 4, 2012 QuoteWe need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump. In the late 70's it paid $10/student to teach the s/l FJC. That price continued into the late 90's. I think it pays $15/student now for the AFF FJC. I'm not sure because I only teach once a year. It's not worth my time. . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #10 November 4, 2012 QuoteWe need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump. If it were simply % based on what the student is paying it would always keep up with price increase on the DZ and remain a fair split. I hope the Union idea is a joke!?Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mr_Polite 0 #11 November 4, 2012 You will make more with a union, too bad you'll have to pay the union 2x what your raise was. Unions don't work, look at the auto industry.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markovwgti 0 #12 November 4, 2012 75 per person for fjc 60 each level we do one instructor afp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Krip 1 #13 November 4, 2012 QuoteYou will make more with a union, too bad you'll have to pay the union 2x what your raise was. Unions don't work, look at the auto industry.... Some people have bad feelings towards unions. But why call it a union. When the intructor rateing system was started by USPA it was just a weekend thing, putting out static lines. Now the DZ staff has grown into a full time gig, AFF, tandems etc. The PIA part of USPA and it isn't union, it's a association. DZ's aren't a union their group members. Dentists, Dr's and Lawyers don't belong to unions they belong to professional organizations.. If the DZ staff wants to be treated like professionals, be paid a fair wage have their gear insured if it's stored at the DZ etc etc. Than they need to get organized at a national level. USPA and the DZ's aren't going to do this for the DZ staff. I heard about this thing called social media Maybe you all should try using it if you want to see some changes. Or you could just whine and continue working for whatever the DZ wants to pay you. R. l Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Para5-0 0 #14 November 5, 2012 Oh Shit. I was just kidding. Please dont start a movement against me for wanting to start USPA unions. lmao I have enough going on. I am in the cold powerless house of mine just bored. But laughing how you have to watch whatever you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #15 November 5, 2012 I kinda figured it was a joke but thanks for clarifying!Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mr_Polite 0 #16 November 6, 2012 And what exactly is social media doing to change anything? You can try to start a professional organization (UNION) and fight for those higher wages you think you deserve. Add in some insurance for your gear, maybe a little health care and a 401k. Soon it's going to cost $1000 for an AFF level 1. Now you will have nobody coming to jump because it's a total rip off. Being an instructor for most is a 2nd job typically used to cover the cost of jumping. If you decide to be a full time instructor and not work a real job that is on you. That doesn't mean you get all the benfits of a normal job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Krip 1 #17 November 6, 2012 QuoteAnd what exactly is social media doing to change anything? You can try to start a professional organization (UNION) and fight for those higher wages you think you deserve. Add in some insurance for your gear, maybe a little health care and a 401k. Soon it's going to cost $1000 for an AFF level 1. Now you will have nobody coming to jump because it's a total rip off. Being an instructor for most is a 2nd job typically used to cover the cost of jumping. If you decide to be a full time instructor and not work a real job that is on you. That doesn't mean you get all the benfits of a normal job. Hi I ont do social media: tweet, facebook, cell phone etc but from watching international news scoial media was given some of the credit for starting some of the political changes in the middle east, egypt. Like egypt. I'm guessing social media could be used by the DZ worker bee's to discuss their concerns on a national or international level. I don't know what you mean by a total ripoff, learning to jump will definatly be more expensive, but you get what you pay for.FWIW I was a fun jumper. What do you consider a "normal job". Working on wall street, makeing the big bucks even if your pruduct is if a failur. Digging a dtch,, AMA Dr,, a stay at home mom, BTW I don't argue.Have a nice day. R. R. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mr_Polite 0 #18 November 6, 2012 Sorry but the only thing I hear you saying is "I want more money, I want more money". If you want more money start hucking tandems or get a real job. One that provides you with possible retirement benefits and health care. Keep raising the price of AFF and soon enough people will stop coming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 5.samadhi 0 #19 November 6, 2012 how much is AFF lvl 1 usually like 200 bucks? Well that is 3 slots for 75 dollars. Gear rental for 25 dollars, that leaves 100 dollars. 40 dollars each instructor and that leaves 20 dollars for the dropzone. Levels with 1 instructor should reflect a 65 dollar drop in price (slot of instructor + instructor pay). seems fair to me...isnt that how most dropzones work it out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #20 November 6, 2012 Quote If you want more money start hucking tandems or get a real job. One that provides you with possible retirement benefits and health care. Keep raising the price of AFF and soon enough people will stop coming. I think you're confused, or intentionally posting unrelated topics. There's a big difference between upping the per-jump pay of your instructors by a couple bucks, and offering a pension and health care. I agree that being a skydiving instructor is never going to be a 'real' job in that you can make a career out of it, feed your family, send your kids to college and retire, but that doesn't mean that the pay should stagnate for decades. The work hasn't gotten any easier, but the pay is the same as is was 15 years ago. Living expenses, gear and rigging, and gas to drive to the DZ all cost more, and jumpers are still limited as to how many jumps they can make per day, so I don't think that a 'cost of living' increase is out of the question. Maybe base it on seniority, once a guy has been working there for 2 or 3 seasons, bump them up a notch in pay. Once they hit 5 or 6 years, bump them again. Sure, it's costs more to send the senior staffers up on a jump, but those same people have been helping the DZ make money for years, and probably spending money there for longer. Again, it's a long way from a pension and health care. Kicking in another $3 to $5 a jump for some of your dedicated employees isn't asking much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theonlyski 1 #21 November 6, 2012 Quotehow much is AFF lvl 1 usually like 200 bucks? Well that is 3 slots for 75 dollars. Gear rental for 25 dollars, that leaves 100 dollars. 40 dollars each instructor and that leaves 20 dollars for the dropzone. Levels with 1 instructor should reflect a 65 dollar drop in price (slot of instructor + instructor pay). seems fair to me...isnt that how most dropzones work it out? Most AFF level 1 prices include the FJC."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites -ftp- 0 #22 November 6, 2012 QuoteOh Shit. I was just kidding. Please dont start a movement against me for wanting to start USPA unions. lmao I have enough going on. I am in the cold powerless house of mine just bored. But laughing how you have to watch whatever you say. Pretty cool how you have internet with no power Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mr_Polite 0 #23 November 6, 2012 Confused is for sure a possibility I like your idea of the more seasoned instructors getting more pay. That makes sense. If you really want to make money skydiving the way to do it is video and tandems. I know instructors/video people that make well over $1000 a weekend. Granted this isn't every weekend due to weather and other factors but still that's good money for a weekend worth of work. Kicking in a reasonable raise isn't a bad thing, i just get the impression from whats his face that he feels he is entitled to more than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deisel 5 #24 November 6, 2012 Great ideas but this is the wrong way to go. Leave the DZOs to run their bussinesses how they see fit. Leave the instructors to work where ever they see fit. A good DZO will take care of his/her staff, which doesnt always mean more money. If they dont, the staff is free to depart for greener pastures. This is what happenned to Detroit. The labor now costs more than the cars they produce. I would vehemently oppose a labor union in any form. It would be the death of any DZ whose staff was short sighted and selfish enough to join a union. Other than lower insurance premiums, I see no reason for a union to exist and that can be done through other means. USPA has been wise to stay away from this issue. DThe brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Para5-0 0 #25 November 8, 2012 My laptop battery and a verizon wireless card. On a good note I now have power and will not complain any longer. 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psychoswooper 0 #7 October 28, 2012 Our DZ pays $40 on 1 JM levels and $40/$25 on 2 JM levels. JM who does ground prep gets the $40 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #8 November 4, 2012 We need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 9 #9 November 4, 2012 QuoteWe need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump. In the late 70's it paid $10/student to teach the s/l FJC. That price continued into the late 90's. I think it pays $15/student now for the AFF FJC. I'm not sure because I only teach once a year. It's not worth my time. . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #10 November 4, 2012 QuoteWe need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump. If it were simply % based on what the student is paying it would always keep up with price increase on the DZ and remain a fair split. I hope the Union idea is a joke!?Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #11 November 4, 2012 You will make more with a union, too bad you'll have to pay the union 2x what your raise was. Unions don't work, look at the auto industry.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markovwgti 0 #12 November 4, 2012 75 per person for fjc 60 each level we do one instructor afp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 1 #13 November 4, 2012 QuoteYou will make more with a union, too bad you'll have to pay the union 2x what your raise was. Unions don't work, look at the auto industry.... Some people have bad feelings towards unions. But why call it a union. When the intructor rateing system was started by USPA it was just a weekend thing, putting out static lines. Now the DZ staff has grown into a full time gig, AFF, tandems etc. The PIA part of USPA and it isn't union, it's a association. DZ's aren't a union their group members. Dentists, Dr's and Lawyers don't belong to unions they belong to professional organizations.. If the DZ staff wants to be treated like professionals, be paid a fair wage have their gear insured if it's stored at the DZ etc etc. Than they need to get organized at a national level. USPA and the DZ's aren't going to do this for the DZ staff. I heard about this thing called social media Maybe you all should try using it if you want to see some changes. Or you could just whine and continue working for whatever the DZ wants to pay you. R. l Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #14 November 5, 2012 Oh Shit. I was just kidding. Please dont start a movement against me for wanting to start USPA unions. lmao I have enough going on. I am in the cold powerless house of mine just bored. But laughing how you have to watch whatever you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #15 November 5, 2012 I kinda figured it was a joke but thanks for clarifying!Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #16 November 6, 2012 And what exactly is social media doing to change anything? You can try to start a professional organization (UNION) and fight for those higher wages you think you deserve. Add in some insurance for your gear, maybe a little health care and a 401k. Soon it's going to cost $1000 for an AFF level 1. Now you will have nobody coming to jump because it's a total rip off. Being an instructor for most is a 2nd job typically used to cover the cost of jumping. If you decide to be a full time instructor and not work a real job that is on you. That doesn't mean you get all the benfits of a normal job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 1 #17 November 6, 2012 QuoteAnd what exactly is social media doing to change anything? You can try to start a professional organization (UNION) and fight for those higher wages you think you deserve. Add in some insurance for your gear, maybe a little health care and a 401k. Soon it's going to cost $1000 for an AFF level 1. Now you will have nobody coming to jump because it's a total rip off. Being an instructor for most is a 2nd job typically used to cover the cost of jumping. If you decide to be a full time instructor and not work a real job that is on you. That doesn't mean you get all the benfits of a normal job. Hi I ont do social media: tweet, facebook, cell phone etc but from watching international news scoial media was given some of the credit for starting some of the political changes in the middle east, egypt. Like egypt. I'm guessing social media could be used by the DZ worker bee's to discuss their concerns on a national or international level. I don't know what you mean by a total ripoff, learning to jump will definatly be more expensive, but you get what you pay for.FWIW I was a fun jumper. What do you consider a "normal job". Working on wall street, makeing the big bucks even if your pruduct is if a failur. Digging a dtch,, AMA Dr,, a stay at home mom, BTW I don't argue.Have a nice day. R. R. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #18 November 6, 2012 Sorry but the only thing I hear you saying is "I want more money, I want more money". If you want more money start hucking tandems or get a real job. One that provides you with possible retirement benefits and health care. Keep raising the price of AFF and soon enough people will stop coming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #19 November 6, 2012 how much is AFF lvl 1 usually like 200 bucks? Well that is 3 slots for 75 dollars. Gear rental for 25 dollars, that leaves 100 dollars. 40 dollars each instructor and that leaves 20 dollars for the dropzone. Levels with 1 instructor should reflect a 65 dollar drop in price (slot of instructor + instructor pay). seems fair to me...isnt that how most dropzones work it out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #20 November 6, 2012 Quote If you want more money start hucking tandems or get a real job. One that provides you with possible retirement benefits and health care. Keep raising the price of AFF and soon enough people will stop coming. I think you're confused, or intentionally posting unrelated topics. There's a big difference between upping the per-jump pay of your instructors by a couple bucks, and offering a pension and health care. I agree that being a skydiving instructor is never going to be a 'real' job in that you can make a career out of it, feed your family, send your kids to college and retire, but that doesn't mean that the pay should stagnate for decades. The work hasn't gotten any easier, but the pay is the same as is was 15 years ago. Living expenses, gear and rigging, and gas to drive to the DZ all cost more, and jumpers are still limited as to how many jumps they can make per day, so I don't think that a 'cost of living' increase is out of the question. Maybe base it on seniority, once a guy has been working there for 2 or 3 seasons, bump them up a notch in pay. Once they hit 5 or 6 years, bump them again. Sure, it's costs more to send the senior staffers up on a jump, but those same people have been helping the DZ make money for years, and probably spending money there for longer. Again, it's a long way from a pension and health care. Kicking in another $3 to $5 a jump for some of your dedicated employees isn't asking much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 1 #21 November 6, 2012 Quotehow much is AFF lvl 1 usually like 200 bucks? Well that is 3 slots for 75 dollars. Gear rental for 25 dollars, that leaves 100 dollars. 40 dollars each instructor and that leaves 20 dollars for the dropzone. Levels with 1 instructor should reflect a 65 dollar drop in price (slot of instructor + instructor pay). seems fair to me...isnt that how most dropzones work it out? Most AFF level 1 prices include the FJC."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #22 November 6, 2012 QuoteOh Shit. I was just kidding. Please dont start a movement against me for wanting to start USPA unions. lmao I have enough going on. I am in the cold powerless house of mine just bored. But laughing how you have to watch whatever you say. Pretty cool how you have internet with no power Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #23 November 6, 2012 Confused is for sure a possibility I like your idea of the more seasoned instructors getting more pay. That makes sense. If you really want to make money skydiving the way to do it is video and tandems. I know instructors/video people that make well over $1000 a weekend. Granted this isn't every weekend due to weather and other factors but still that's good money for a weekend worth of work. Kicking in a reasonable raise isn't a bad thing, i just get the impression from whats his face that he feels he is entitled to more than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deisel 5 #24 November 6, 2012 Great ideas but this is the wrong way to go. Leave the DZOs to run their bussinesses how they see fit. Leave the instructors to work where ever they see fit. A good DZO will take care of his/her staff, which doesnt always mean more money. If they dont, the staff is free to depart for greener pastures. This is what happenned to Detroit. The labor now costs more than the cars they produce. I would vehemently oppose a labor union in any form. It would be the death of any DZ whose staff was short sighted and selfish enough to join a union. Other than lower insurance premiums, I see no reason for a union to exist and that can be done through other means. USPA has been wise to stay away from this issue. DThe brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #25 November 8, 2012 My laptop battery and a verizon wireless card. On a good note I now have power and will not complain any longer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
