"Coach" pulls for a student!

[JohnMitchell 14]

skyjumpenfool

I had a student loose altitude awareness this summer. I dumped out in front of him and he got the message. Plan the dive, dive the plan.

I've done it both ways. Lots of variables. Life is rarely black and white.

[AaronComp 0]

The mind creates for us, I have a AFF rating so I can pull, but Im working on this coach jump , wait, did you say the student grabbed the reserv hand, coach pulls boc,, did he bring the guys body bag to the dz that morning, dont do stupid sht to save gear, those are people not hams,

[AaronComp 0]

BIGUN

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RIGGER POSTS: "This opens again the big question: Does 100 jumps makes a skydiver ready to be a coach or it should be minimum 200 + jumps & the ability to jump with a camera for training & education. "

oooh - here's an interesting one


Coach jump - if qualified to wear the camera? I don't have an issue with that. His job is observation, not intervention. the camera fits the description

But I don't think AFFI's should be wearing cameras on AFF jumps. You are around deploying gear, it affects your ability to fly, it can be a distraction to the student, etc etc etc etc

how's that for a transposition from expectations?

1) Are you suggesting an AFF/I should wear a camera on AFF jumps, or 2) are you suggesting someone implied they should?

I don't think anyone (or a very low number of AFF/I's) would consider taking a video/camera on a student jump. In the case of the video... he was acting as Coach, therefore he had a video/camera. He did not take the camera with the intentions of acting as an AFF/I.

the military uses micro cameras at action angles, instructors are told to ignore them, the systems need to be smooth and simple,

[AaronComp 0]

The military doesn't agree with you on this,

[AaronComp 0]

I just saw that video ,, are you fukin kidding me,,
im going to the range, call me when this sht is over, yes open your eyes use the video, but no dont brake your neck or lasso 550 spec line around your student and that big ass GLASS lens

[vcarter 0]

During most my Coach jumps I was tracking away at altitude and I don't remember the coaches following me. Which bring up an interesting question, should coaches follow you away on track away and pull just in case something like this were to happen after the coach and student separate?

He is probably like me and was only used to the hackie sack instead of the plastic. But of course I did practice touches on the ground, in the plane and once out. I mean you always practice muscle memory when you are trying something new.

Let me put this disclaimer out there early, I am not a coach, instructor, and don't have over 50 jumps - YET!

Life finds its purpose and fulfillment in the expansion of happiness

--- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

[tetra316 0]

vcarter

During most my Coach jumps I was tracking away at altitude and I don't remember the coaches following me. Which bring up an interesting question, should coaches follow you away on track away and pull just in case something like this were to happen after the coach and student separate?

No, what happens if the student has a late pull by the time the coach decides to dump? Then you have both pulling at the same time in near the same place.

[rehmwa 2]

tetra316

No, what happens if the student has a late pull by the time the coach decides to dump? Then you have both pulling at the same time in near the same place.

I like the thought behind this comment. i.e., The coach needs to be mindful of separation and pull altitude. that said, there is room to follow for those with the awareness and skill.....

If my student is pulling higher than me (the plan (4k to 5k)), I usually do observe and follow the track. I still have time (1k) to track and pull on my own (3K) when he dumps.

But....If, during this, the student misses his pull time, and he's facing away from me (pretty much guaranteed). I can't pull in front of him (last warning/communication) as he's not looking - I still need to track away and pull at my time - again, follow the plan. My plan is hard deck where I go away vs 'help' or 'watch' regardless of what the student is doing at that hard deck. Above that point, I can do anything I like for the student.

There is just not time to go 'get him' and pull for him in most tracking scenarios. The safest move is to get separated and pull as normal. Giving the student room to do his job, per plan.

AFF is different, I'll be just as close or closer, and my plan for action (pull for him) has an assigned altitude as well....


note AFF, or coaching, (and any other regular type of jumping)....everybody involved has a planned hard deck for separation, pulling, etc etc etc.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Rstanley0312 0]

BASE469

Imagining that this were indeed a coach performing this skydive....it appears to be a jump in the G category, either the first or third dive flow. Isn't the role of the coach, in this category, to observe the student tracking from the two way? I believe that the student is supposed to track, or should be capable of tracking 50' at this stage. The coach is to observe the track, or, within 500' of the assigned breakoff altitude attempt to gain the attention of the student to breakoff by waving him/her off. Should the student fail leave the coach is to gain adequate separation and deploy. Are you suggesting that coaches chase tracking student just in case one of them fails to deploy and then deploy them? That's a pretty bold position to take given the average flying skills of most coaches. This isn't to slam the coaches, but to be honest, relatively few of them have, or should need, those skills. We need to keep a consisent and simple bottom end for them. How many plans should they have for a breakoff routine? I agree with others above that believe the student needs refreshed in missing handle procedures....and that was a horrible PC launch....

Some coaches have the skill but I agree most do not. I have even practiced the AFF skills many times with AFFI's. I for one do not want that though. I chose to just stay a coach and not get my AFF for this very reason. I do not want to pull for a student. It is a personal choice and I do not think the rating should change. If you want to be able to do that... get your AFF.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 0]

JohnMitchell

***I had a student loose altitude awareness this summer. I dumped out in front of him and he got the message. Plan the dive, dive the plan.

I've done it both ways. Lots of variables. Life is rarely black and white.

I tell a student in the dive plan review at the end..... if I am telling you to pull by pointing at you.... PULL. If you don't, you may get it again..... "may". The last indication you will see is my deployment. If I deploy you better get some fabric over your head and fast. This is the part of the dive flow that I lose all the fun in me and get very serious. I make sure they understand and during the ride up I will ask them multiple times "what does this mean" and point at them. I do this in between reviewing altitude requirements on the way up. I try to be as thorough as my AFFI's were on my first AFF. I am not sure a lot of coaches do this. I hope they do.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[riggerrob 558]

AFFIs wearing cameras only works when the cameras have few snag points.
Why are modern skydivers not bright enough to learn from previous deaths?