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aarco

Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter

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My students were taught to ignore the radio if they figured the instructions they were getting were incorrect. A student landing off the DZ is usually landing out of sight, and the operator can not know where the canopy is taking him.



Interesting. If your students can determine what instructions are incorrect why do they need instructions at all?

If a student is out of sight I certainly hope that the guy on the radio is not still giving instructions.
"For you see, an airplane is an airplane. A landing area is a landing area. But a dropzone... a dropzone is the people."

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Interesting. If your students can determine what instructions are incorrect why do they need instructions at all?



Students have been known to follow ALL the instructions they hear before realising that they have made a mistake....ending up somewhere they shouldn't really be, and then having to sort out a safe landing for themselves.

Landing off from the DZ they are told on the radio to fend for themselves...

With 4 students under canopy at the same time, often not familiar with the English language, the potential for confusion is always there. If the DZ is near a huge lake or the sea, with a large forest also nearby, it doesn't take a student long to fly themselves into a potentially troublesome area.

This kind of thing didn't happen very often, but you have to allow for it to happen at anytime when dealing with first jump students.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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>I cannot believe you said any of that. Oh, it's a test, right?

Nope. If anyone out there is producing students who do not know what to do during an emergency without an altimeter, then they should rethink their syllabus. It would be sad to see students go in because they could not read their altimeters during a mal (which happens quite often, especially with chestmounts.)

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>I cannot believe you said any of that. Oh, it's a test, right?

Nope. If anyone out there is producing students who do not know what to do during an emergency without an altimeter, then they should rethink their syllabus.)



Let's not play the misdirect game, eh

Do you teach them Decision Altitude? If so, why?
Do you teach them Time Distortion? If so, why?
Do you teach automatically cutaway and deploy the reserve no matter what?
Do you teach them what do in case of loss of altitude? If so, why?


Things like that is why I can't believe you said that.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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>Do you teach them Decision Altitude? If so, why?

Yes. Because in very rare cases they may still be screwing with a low speed mal at 2500 feet.

>Do you teach them Time Distortion? If so, why?

Not per se. I tell them how fast things can happen. I also tell them how much time they really have, generally during real time cutaway exercises in a hanging harness.

>Do you teach automatically cutaway and deploy the reserve no matter what?

Nope.

>Do you teach them what do in case of loss of altitude? If so, why?

Yes (I assume you meant "loss of altitude awareness.") Because sometimes students can't read altimeters, whether it's due to a failure on their part or a mechanical failure. And even if that happens, they have to be able to save their own lives.

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>Do you teach them Decision Altitude? If so, why?


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Yes. Because in very rare cases they may still be screwing with a low speed mal at 2500 feet.



That appears to conflict with your statement in Post 31:
"I very much hope that students are not taught that they need an altimeter to react correctly in case of emergency! "
If they are are not taught to monitor altitude in an emergency, how would they know 2500 feet?

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>Do you teach them Time Distortion? If so, why?


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Not per se. I tell them how fast things can happen. I also tell them how much time they really have, generally during real time cutaway exercises in a hanging harness.


I feel altitude awareness is much more important than "time".
Because of Time Distortion, "time" is subjective...altitude is objective. Ergo, the need for reading an altimeter. This is especially true for students and young jumpers

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>Do you teach automatically cutaway and deploy the reserve no matter what?


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Nope.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. The reason I asked is because in your statement in Post 31:
"1) No canopy after 5 seconds? Cut away and deploy your reserve.
2) Malfunction? Cut away and deploy your reserve.
3) Does not pass control check? Cut away and deploy your reserve."
That indicates the K.I.S.S. teachings. For me,
-no canopy? I teach Deploy The Reserve.
-Some mals deploy reserve, some cutaway first.
(#3 is standard, yes.)

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>Do you teach them what do in case of loss of altitude? If so, why?


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Yes (I assume you meant "loss of altitude awareness.") Because sometimes students can't read altimeters, whether it's due to a failure on their part or a mechanical failure. And even if that happens, they have to be able to save their own lives.


Yes, "loss of altitude". The reason I asked is that it appears that you are telling them to cutaway and deploy the reserve in all cases as per your post 31. The problem here is what to deploy...main or reserve. Either one could be good...or bad.
In a "loss of altitude" situation, cutting away the main is pointless.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Not (never) our square students, but our SL round jumpers do jump without an alti. Tandem students don't get an alti either if you're after that.



Likewise, back in the 60's and 70's at some DZ's in the states SL students were dispatched from 2800- 3000 feet out of cessnas without Altis. Oddly, I still know "older" jumpers who simply refuse to jump an alti because they still rely on their "primary alti": their eyes. They still hum it to 2000 feet (or thereabouts) on every jump as well. Hell, one of them doesn't wear goggles! Guess who that is..

Chuck
D-12501

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Not (never) our square students, but our SL round jumpers do jump without an alti. Tandem students don't get an alti either if you're after that.



Likewise, back in the 60's and 70's at some DZ's in the states SL students were dispatched from 2800- 3000 feet out of cessnas without Altis. Oddly, I still know "older" jumpers who simply refuse to jump an alti because they still rely on their "primary alti": their eyes. They still hum it to 2000 feet (or thereabouts) on every jump as well. Hell, one of them doesn't wear goggles! Guess who that is..

Chuck
D-12501


I know a guy like that! He started jumping back when they had to feed the pterodactyl's before jump ops so they would eat the students!
:P
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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I teach in the ASA - Advanced Sports Aero - Lots of the clients are pre fed ideas about gear and they talk about the future and were the sport is going before they even make a jump - I saw a few times students getting placed by others in skill atitudes before the clear picture was painted- almost like stealing a product and calling it the same- the end result was mostly the same - weak skill - poor awarness - and shealds up over the situation due to ego or fear. most instructors have to teach and talk about the environment of the sport before they show a student or someone the gear or the idea of how that type of gear works. Showing a handle before the alti- plants an action image before extra gear systems are brought along - the dive flow is changing with the future - but safety is always first - Having more then one altimeter I think is a good idea - even more so for young jumpers.

Having something never beats doing (>|<)
Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - -

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Not (never) our square students, but our SL round jumpers do jump without an alti. Tandem students don't get an alti either if you're after that.



Likewise, back in the 60's and 70's at some DZ's in the states SL students were dispatched from 2800- 3000 feet .... without Altis.


:D:D
First jump of the 70's with an alti...Jump 26.
Last jump of the 70's with an alti...Jump 26

Damned thing mounted on my belly reserve busted my chin when my legs came up on hard opening and the freakin' thing got me a good one.

I did learn something,though. Never having been able to touch my toes, I had no clue I could bend in half like that.
:D:D:D

Oh...BTW, Chuck...I land on a freakin' golf course every day...multiple times.
:P
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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All the elemints in life for good score keeping - some guys and gals have the alti on that mud flapper just above the cuttaway handle- - we have been working on a huds display with in flight coms for the ASA student group-- just tied up with the military and the light projection.

Having something never beats doing (>|<)
Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - -

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