skinnay 0 #1 July 26, 2011 Every now and then I hear complaints from aff students that an aff instructor is moving his hands so much the student didnt know what hand signals the instructor was giving them. The student is nervous and focused on your hands for instruction. Maybe its just a habit, but you should be able to fly well enough to hold your slot with still hands. I'm just curious what instructors think about this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #2 July 26, 2011 QuoteEvery now and then I hear complaints from aff students that an aff instructor is moving his hands so much the student didnt know what hand signals the instructor was giving them. I have honestly never heard this before. I always emphasize actually, eye contact. If I am going to give a student a signal - it is always quite deliberate, and right "in their face". Quote...but you should be able to fly well enough to hold your slot with still hands. I agree. EDITED TO ADD: A couple of picture attachment examplescoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 July 26, 2011 Quote always emphasize actually, eye contact "CHECK IN" and stop there, smile at me, let me know you are checking in and not just glancing and all fuzzy brained - (bonus points to student that give me signals - ) still hands are great - sometimes it's a bit of work though to hold a good signal for those that REALLY need them - I think for the really difficult students, it's also great to have the teamwork where on reserve side, I want to help that student be stable enough that the main side doesn't have to work to the limit just to get a good set of signals off. And conversely when on main side, appreciate that reserve side by giving those definite signals that he helped you get out there ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #4 July 26, 2011 Yeah, one has to take one's time with signals, since it obviously takes the student longer to see, recognize, and react to a hand signal, than it takes for the instructor to think about them. So flashing 'arch', 'legs out', and 'relax' in about 2 seconds is going to be a waste of time. I do see that you are talking more about what the hands are doing when NOT signalling, than what they are doing when signalling. But at least if the signals are clearer and steady, it helps to distinguish them if the instructor normally lets his hands bounce around more in the air. (Also, for instructors at the student's side rather than flying in front, don't stick your hand 4" infront of the student's nose, or they won't even be able to focus their eyes...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #5 July 26, 2011 Quote bonus points to student that give me signals Like this? Let's turn this into a picture(s) thread! coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShawn 0 #6 July 26, 2011 Quote Quote bonus points to student that give me signals Like this? Let's turn this into a picture(s) thread! Isn't the student suppose to pay attention to altitude, not the video camera flyer, or is that just a recommendation in the SIMS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #7 July 27, 2011 Huh... thought this was going to be another thread about AFFI's feelin'-up students... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #8 July 27, 2011 Quote Isn't the student suppose to pay attention to altitude, not the video camera flyer, or is that just a recommendation in the SIMS? I'm sure he just finished a COA. Seriously, a video flyer shooting AFF needs to read the student and make sure the student doesn't get too distracted. If so, the video flyer needs to leave the student's field of vision, IMO. Any camera flyers or other AFF instructors with a different opinion? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #9 July 27, 2011 Honest, I was just checking the chest strap...Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmarvin 2 #10 July 27, 2011 QuoteEvery now and then I hear complaints from aff students that an aff instructor is moving his hands so much the student didnt know what hand signals the instructor was giving them. The student is nervous and focused on your hands for instruction. Maybe its just a habit, but you should be able to fly well enough to hold your slot with still hands. I'm just curious what instructors think about this? I have heard of this before as well. This complaint typicaly happens on release jumps that are in facing two ways. Instructors need to learn to fly "quiet" as not to distract the student. It is commonly nervous energy when the AFF-I is noisy. DJ Marvin AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E http://www.theratingscenter.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_K 0 #11 July 27, 2011 Quote Quote Isn't the student suppose to pay attention to altitude, not the video camera flyer, or is that just a recommendation in the SIMS? I'm sure he just finished a COA. Seriously, a video flyer shooting AFF needs to read the student and make sure the student doesn't get too distracted. If so, the video flyer needs to leave the student's field of vision, IMO. Any camera flyers or other AFF instructors with a different opinion? I agree completely. I do both AFF and camera and students can get fizated on geeking out for the camera. If that starts to happen, fly around, up, down, whatever to get out of the students feild of view while still making the shot look cool. Once a student goes back to there tasks its usually ok to drop to there periferal and snap face shots. Of course THAT call depends entirely on the student. Some are great, others have the attention span of a cat when they see a camera.Downsizing is not the way to prove your manhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmarshall234 13 #12 July 27, 2011 I believe the best Instructors demonstrate a sense of calm in freefall. Busy hands, too many signals, over-controlling a student - these are all demonstrations of an Instructor's own anxiety. Students (not unlike children) are quick to pick up on these things. Be calm and demonstrate your calm and good things will follow. That's what I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #13 July 27, 2011 QuoteI believe the best Instructors demonstrate a sense of calm in freefall. Busy hands, too many signals, over-controlling a student - these are all demonstrations of an Instructor's own anxiety. Students (not unlike children) are quick to pick up on these things. Be calm and demonstrate your calm and good things will follow. That's what I believe. Just quoting you because this is phenominal advice. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #14 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote I believe the best Instructors demonstrate a sense of calm in freefall. Busy hands, too many signals, over-controlling a student - these are all demonstrations of an Instructor's own anxiety. Students (not unlike children) are quick to pick up on these things. Be calm and demonstrate your calm and good things will follow. That's what I believe. Just quoting you because this is phenominal advice. What would you then think of an AFFI that smacks a student in freefall? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #15 July 28, 2011 Quote What would you then think of an AFFI that smacks a student in freefall? Depends, did they need to be told twice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #16 July 28, 2011 Quote What would you then think of an AFFI that smacks a student in freefall? Did it get them to snap out of it? I think that once we leave the plane, it's my job to take some control and direct/instruct the student during the jump. That job may require under taking and using every trick in the book to maintain safety, if you need a smack up side your damn helmet in order to get your attention as to what is going on, well guess what..... That is right, your getting a smack up side your helmet!you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #17 July 28, 2011 slapping an AFF student on the wrist to get them "back in the game" and focusing on altitude is very, very common. Here, slapping either wrist means "check altitude and look for signals" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #18 July 28, 2011 yea I know, same here, that is why I didn't check alti, I said smack you up side your head on your helmet to wake your ass up. If were at the point of busting one up side your head, we done already went thru the full deck and are now dealing jokers. FMI- we're not talking punch or hard blow here, but yes I've seen a few head taps before.in order to get a student to look @ an instructor.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #19 July 29, 2011 Quoteyea I know, same here, that is why I didn't check alti, I said smack you up side your head on your helmet to wake your ass up. If were at the point of busting one up side your head, we done already went thru the full deck and are now dealing jokers. FMI- we're not talking punch or hard blow here, but yes I've seen a few head taps before.in order to get a student to look @ an instructor. Yeah, a poor body position student who isn't even thinking about thinking of looking at instructors can be woken up with a reasonable rap on the helmet. I have experienced that they always look at me with a "wtf did you do that for" look, and then realize where exactly they are. I gently will tap tandem students on the top of the head if they spend the whole time starring at the ground and never look at the camera too, saves giving refunds for "omg you didn't get any pictures of my face.'~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
