Master_Yoda 0 #1 August 30, 2010 How young can a tandem passenger be? With parental consent of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #2 August 30, 2010 Both the major US tandem manufacturers say 18 for usage on their rigs. I am unsure what Jumpshacks stance is on it.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #3 August 30, 2010 Quote Both the major US tandem manufacturers say 18 for usage on their rigs. I am unsure what Jumpshacks stance is on it. And just FYI: The line 'She said she was 18' doesn't hold up in court. but not really..."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 9 #4 August 30, 2010 Any age in New Zealand.2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #5 August 30, 2010 Quote Both the major US tandem manufacturers say 18 for usage on their rigs. I am unsure what Jumpshacks stance is on it. do we have an idea about WHY 18 ? People can sail a boat, ride a motorbike, drive a car, or even fly planes (and with parachutes on their backs ) before that, but can not be strapped to an experimented skydiver to experience the joys of freefallscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobMoore 0 #6 August 30, 2010 Quote do we have an idea about WHY 18 ? People can sail a boat, ride a motorbike, drive a car, or even fly planes (and with parachutes on their backs ) before that, but can not be strapped to an experimented skydiver to experience the joys of freefall I think it has to do with minors not being able to sign away their right to sue?"For you see, an airplane is an airplane. A landing area is a landing area. But a dropzone... a dropzone is the people." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin86 0 #7 August 30, 2010 I saw a 4 year old do a tandem in Denmark. We don't have any rules about age when it comes to tandems. Parental consent of course.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master_Yoda 0 #8 August 30, 2010 Ah well, I can't say I'm not suprised it's 18 in the US. Home of the "not as free as we think" and subject to the wimpers of the "not so brave". Oi! http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/Fishmonger_707/NSLF72.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gators1240 9 #9 August 30, 2010 I can understand the waiver argument but why then are kids of all ages permitted to fly in tunnels? Granted the waivers may not be the same but the parents still have to sign one for that.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #10 August 30, 2010 QuoteI can understand the waiver argument but why then are kids of all ages permitted to fly in tunnels? Granted the waivers may not be the same but the parents still have to sign one for that....why can they drive a car, shoot a gun or fly a plane on their own .. and not be a passenger on a parachute dual system.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master_Yoda 0 #11 August 30, 2010 QuoteQuoteI can understand the waiver argument but why then are kids of all ages permitted to fly in tunnels? Granted the waivers may not be the same but the parents still have to sign one for that....why can they drive a car, shoot a gun or fly a plane on their own .. and not be a passenger on a parachute dual system. +1 Why??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #12 August 30, 2010 You can take a child as young as you want on a tandem in the US. There are no laws from the "Nanny State" that say you can't. Just open your own dropzone so all the potential liability is yours, design, build and get certified your own tandem system so all the liability is yours, and find a willing pilot and plane owner. Then go for it! Whee. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master_Yoda 0 #13 August 30, 2010 Quote You can take a child as young as you want on a tandem in the US. There are no laws from the "Nanny State" that say you can't. Just open your own dropzone so all the potential liability is yours, design, build and get certified your own tandem system so all the liability is yours, and find a willing pilot and plane owner. Then go for it! Whee. Weeell wooeee Danny boah, if I'da dun nown it wuz dat eazy I'da dun it looong ago! Hot diggitty dangit!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #14 August 30, 2010 or come to Europe. What age are the kids you wanna see jumping ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #15 August 30, 2010 I guess you missed my point. Shocker. It's not the nanny state keeping you from taking an infant on a tandem, it's all the people who have to put their savings accounts on the line if you do it and go in. Even parents who sign a waiver will sue your ass (and everyone else's ass who are even remotely involved) for "killing" little Johnny. The government doesn't care how old your student is, but tandems don't affect just the tandem instructor and student, there are a lot of other people who have to help make it happen, and most of those people are smart enough to know that it's not worth it. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 619 #16 August 30, 2010 From what I'm hearing it sounds like most DZO's are wanting the new age limit at 16. Manufacturers prefer 18. Time will tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master_Yoda 0 #17 August 30, 2010 QuoteI guess you missed my point. Shocker. It's not the nanny state keeping you from taking an infant on a tandem, it's all the people who have to put their savings accounts on the line if you do it and go in. Even parents who sign a waiver will sue your ass (and everyone else's ass who are even remotely involved) for "killing" little Johnny. The government doesn't care how old your student is, but tandems don't affect just the tandem instructor and student, there are a lot of other people who have to help make it happen, and most of those people are smart enough to know that it's not worth it. I knew what you meant. Shocker! Quote"subject to the wimpers of the "not so brave"." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #18 August 30, 2010 but still, why then can you be a pilot at 16 (14 for gliders), and still wear a parachute ? I understand that YOU did not write the rules, but I fail to understand the logics... Edited to add : 17yrs old is not "infant" in my book.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #19 August 30, 2010 "...I fail to understand the logic." At the risk of sending this off to Speaker's Corner; there is no logic. In Alabama, you can drive a car and get married at 16, get a pilot's license at 17, join the Army at 18 and do a tandem when you come home on leave at 19. You'd be better off to ask a lawyer why, because none of us skydivers can see any logic there.You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #20 August 30, 2010 I agree that the rules don't make a lot on sense. I think one reason that DZ's are not willing to take people under the age of majority even though 14 year olds can fly gliders is that the FAA has specifically said that 14 years olds can fly gliders. The government has given no guidance on skydiving. The safe bet (for those people who are "not so brave") is to use the generally accepted age of majority. I think if the FAA had a regulation saying that people must be 14 years old to skydive, then dropzones might be more willing to take younger people. And yeah, 17 years old is not an infant, but people from other countries have posted videos of four year olds on tandems, so it's just a matter of time before someone takes their baby skydiving. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #21 August 30, 2010 Quote"subject to the wimpers of the "not so brave"." Have you ever run a dropzone? I'm guessing not. I'll bet you'd quickly fall into the "not so brave" category if you could lose all your assets because one of your employees turned to low one time. If you want to bitch, bitch at the lawyers and the legal system. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tumbler 0 #22 August 30, 2010 And just FYI: The line 'She said she was 18' doesn't hold up in court.That is an interesting point. I was with a young lady wanting to make a tandem who looked too young to me. She filled out the waiver and assured me she was 18, her mother, sitting next to her assured me she was 18, as did manifest. Now if she was indeed 17 or younger would that hold up in court? How far do you go or what steps do you take to ensure you are covered? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #23 August 30, 2010 QuoteHow far do you go or what steps do you take to ensure you are covered? Require ID. You can take it a step further and even document the ID that was checked (e.g., California Driver's license number XXXXXXXXX) on the waiver. I would think that would be a reasonable precaution that a DZ could take that would go a step beyond "trust me, I'm 18.""There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #24 August 30, 2010 "QuoteI agree that the rules don't make a lot on sense. ..." ......................................................................... Agreed! The American legal system and "ages of majority" are based on legal precedents and jury trials before you were born. Back before tandem was invented (1983) there were several very expensive law suits involving 16-year-olds who were injured or killed - while ignoring things said in the classroom a few hours earlier. Many parents refuse to believe that their "little johnny" died because of his own mistakes (eg. spent his entire canopy ride facing a lake), so they try to ascribe blame to some-one else: eg. the DZO. In the majority of cases, the DZO, pilot, instructors, packers, riggers etc, followed "best business practices." The other factor is the American medical insurance system. Since few Americans - and even fewer American minors - carry enough medical insurance to cover long-term disabilities, major injuries often cause bankrupsy. Naturally, survivors try to sue some-one else (eg. DZO) into paying long-term medical costs. For example: in the mid-1980s, a female static-line student did nothing when her main canopy only partially opened. The hard landing broke her back and consigned her to a wheel chair for the rest of her life! The DZO's lawyer caved and agree to an expensive settlement. That DZ did not re-open the following spring. Later I heard another version of the story from a guy who drove short buses for people confined to wheel-chairs. He said that the victim was his most obnoxious passenger and that he had - repeatedly - driven her drunk ass home from bars long before she was old enough to drink legally. Given the miserable legal precedents, is it any wonder few DZOs want to train under-age students and tandem manufacturers specifically forbid under-age tandem students? Rob Warner S/L instructor since 1982 IAD Instructor since 1984 Tandem Instructor since 1986 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,042 #25 August 30, 2010 How old should a tandem student be in Mississippi?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
