shveddy 0 #1 June 9, 2010 I recently demo'd a Blade 2 and began to consider the rumored Skydive Lodi policy (past, i believe) of putting students on small wingsuits. A friend of mine who learned to skydive at Lodi was apparently flying an X-Bird by the time he finished his license and when he moved to the Colorado area downsized to an R-Bird (most would call this a very smart choice considering the pace of flocks these days as he was only 126 pounds). Now I'm not asking to debate whether this actually happened at Skydive Lodi but I'd like to discuss it here as an option in itself. So, here's the question--at a dropzone using an AFP-style program where the student will do 2-3 tandems and then 15-18 jumps with at least 1 instructor, what do you other instructors think about using a Phantom 2 as the student's jumpsuit? The benefits, as far as I can tell, include increased freefall time during which the student can more effectively learn good body position, the ability to correct a long spot, and the increase in business flying a wingsuit during student progression will bring a dropzone. Let's face it, that's all students want to get into as quickly as possible anyway. The obvious downsides include the potential for nasty flatspins, instabilities during flight or the opening sequence, obstruction of deployment by wing fabric and of course, excessive arm fatigue. Sure, wingsuiting is considered to be an advanced discipline but if we make sure to take extra time to instruct our students on body position and relaxation, I think the benefits outweigh the dangers. Besides, we'll be sure to put them on small suits, perhaps even a prodigy if you're that much of a prude. What about the transition training needed for someone who begins flying a wingsuit very early in their career? Would they be more conservative and heads-up about wingsuit flight? That same friend described his speculative take on the late Roger Nelson's philosophy--give a 14 year old a Piper Cub and they'll wreck it. Give that same kid a Skyvan and ok... he'll probably wreck it too. BUT, give him a Boeing 747 and there wont be a scratch on it. Why you ask, its simple: because he has auto-pilot. (Now again I'm not sure if Roger Nelson really felt this way, I'd just like to discuss how this sits with the other instructors out there.) Thanks for voting and posting. Blue skies... Aaron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #2 June 9, 2010 Did I just fall asleep for a year? Is it April 1st again already?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 June 9, 2010 I only have 8 jumps, but I talked to Wingsuit, Inc, and they said I'm ready to jump their TURBO-X wingsuit right now. Now the local wingsuiters tell me I have to stop flipping on my back during deployment on my AFF Cat dives (I'm doing Cat D #3 tomorrow - fingers crossed), but I feel I'm ready now for advance wingsuits - freeflying - 100 ways - mantis position - and a Velo. In fact, I'm sure the wingsuit would help me stay stable and I could pass AFF faster. In mean, the company says I'm ready, and I have skills that my instructors just can't assess (obviously). The old timers like me too - they always smile every time I tell them how to fly. I figured most of this out just reading DZ.com - THANKS GUYS (and GALS) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #4 June 9, 2010 You've got to be a fucking troll or something Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #5 June 9, 2010 You could learn a thing or two from Nippleboy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #6 June 9, 2010 Quote You could learn a thing or two from Nippleboy. OMG - I just spewed my drink all over my monitor here! Oh yes, the old wreck-dot days. LONG LIVE NIPPLEBOY (in some of our old farts memories here, I suppose) Thanks Prof, for the little bit of nostalgia there (or was that just a "flash-back") Carry on.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #7 June 9, 2010 QuoteI only have 8 jumps, but I talked to Wingsuit, Inc, and they said I'm ready to jump their TURBO-X wingsuit right now. Now the local wingsuiters tell me I have to stop flipping on my back during deployment on my AFF Cat dives (I'm doing Cat D #3 tomorrow - fingers crossed), but I feel I'm ready now for advance wingsuits - freeflying - 100 ways - mantis position - and a Velo. In fact, I'm sure the wingsuit would help me stay stable and I could pass AFF faster. In mean, the company says I'm ready, and I have skills that my instructors just can't assess (obviously). The old timers like me too - they always smile every time I tell them how to fly. I figured most of this out just reading DZ.com - THANKS GUYS (and GALS) Best possible thing you can do is wear 2 cameras on your next jump. One helmet mounted and one mounted on your right foot. With this video your progresion will be much quicker. 5 or so more jumps and you'll be ready to fly relative to canyon walls after exiting a helicopter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 June 9, 2010 The view from the helmet cam will be rather shitty what with the user's head that far up their ass.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halfpastniner 0 #9 June 10, 2010 Quote You've got to be a fucking troll or something (golfclap)BASE 1384 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 June 10, 2010 Quote Best possible thing you can do is wear 2 cameras on your next jump. you mean REDUCE the number of cameras I'm wearing down to 2? why do you stodgy oldtimers always try to keep us down? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 June 10, 2010 QuoteThe view from the helmet cam will be rather shitty what with the user's head that far up their ass. NOPE - already have the 3rd camera there ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 June 10, 2010 Quote You've got to be a fucking troll or something he puts out this amazing piece of parody and you think it's real? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #13 June 10, 2010 If you do less than a 540 approach downwind over the main landing area you're a pussy. Be sure to buzz the tandems too. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #14 June 10, 2010 I knew a tunnel instructor that I think had less than 30 skydives that started flying a wingsuit. Didn't get to fly with him but he did try to land his canopy into mine. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #15 June 10, 2010 you missed a poll option, the correct option too. A LARGE wingsuit is an acceptable student jumpsuit We must not forget about wing loading. I mean I know a wing suit is high perfomance and all, but at a lighter wing loading student could really learn to handle such suits with out having to bother with all that transition training later, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #16 June 10, 2010 An XS, Stealth2, or similar should be used for student wingsuiters. These have the slowest fallrate and will make less of a crater. No different than canopies. Start em' as big as you can for as long as you can, downsize as experience dictates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #17 June 10, 2010 QuoteAn XS, Stealth2, or similar should be used for student wingsuiters. These have the slowest fallrate and will make less of a crater. No different than canopies. Start em' as big as you can for as long as you can, downsize as experience dictates. Sure but a STUDENT wingsuiter has at least 200 jumps, right?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #18 June 10, 2010 Quote Quote You've got to be a fucking troll or something he puts out this amazing piece of parody and you think it's real? I agree, this thread is awesome!"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #19 June 10, 2010 Quote Sure but a STUDENT wingsuiter has at least 200 jumps, right?! Not according to the OP or Ray Ferrell, no... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #20 June 10, 2010 QuoteQuote Sure but a STUDENT wingsuiter has at least 200 jumps, right?! Not according to the OP or Ray Ferrell, no... Well we know the OP is full of bs but Ray Ferrell???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #21 June 10, 2010 You should write for The Onion. Well done. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #22 June 10, 2010 Quote Well we know the OP is full of bs but Ray Ferrell???? I'm not saying Ray Ferrell is full of BS, but in his May letter to the editor at Parachutist, he says "A properly rated instructor could safely teach someone to jump a wingsuit on his first jump." I would tend to disagree (just a little bit)with that statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #23 June 10, 2010 Quote Quote Well we know the OP is full of bs but Ray Ferrell???? I'm not saying Ray Ferrell is full of BS, but in his May letter to the editor at Parachutist, he says "A properly rated instructor could safely teach someone to jump a wingsuit on his first jump." I would tend to disagree (just a little bit)with that statement. I think you missed his point.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #24 June 10, 2010 Quote If you do less than a 540 approach downwind over the main landing area you're a pussy. Be sure to buzz the tandems too. it's really great with my Stiletto ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #25 June 10, 2010 Quote I think you missed his point. I didn't miss his point at all. But...absent a more intelligent answer the BSR was the next best thing. Nevertheless, my earlier post is a direct quote from the letter to Parachutist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
