RE: austria-fatality

[LouDiamond 1]

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according to the new info, he was mostly unstable on the V1, so he got a smaller suit; wild guess from me is he seeked coaching.

how about if we leave the details out and just concentrate on the original question?

Since this person apparently had some experience already and subsequently made some poor decisions, perhaps you should re-phrase it since the new info you provided changes the nature of your original question in relation to this incident.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[JohnRich 4]

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I have never seen or heard of anyone getting entangeld in thier own canopy and preventing it from deploying. ...I can't see how you could stop a free packed canopy from deploying once it's out into terminal airspeed for any length of time.

So says the guy with one year in sport and 135 jumps... It must be true!

[virgin-burner 1]

do you share information freely, talk someone through his progression, or will you turn him away?

the question still remains, but the incident in relation to it has lost its status..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[feuergnom 22]

h john - i know sometimes posting in here sucks big time, but could we just play it nice once in a while?

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[mossysam 0]

mate im no highly experienced jumper having only a few more than you but i was taught a 3 fundemental rules that are vital to a good deployment : 1. PULL
2.PULL STABLE 3.PULL AT CORRECT ALTITUDE.
if your knowingly deploying your parachute unstabily due to a wingsuit or other freefall stability factors on more than one occasion you need to reevaluate your ability and your skydiving career, LINE BURNS ON YOUR LEGS what the bloody hell are you doing.
As for your comments on a parachute opening fine because terminal airspeed will pull it free, what do you suppose would happen if a line or pilot chute were to tangle around your legs in a tension knot kind of way? your either going to lose your leg or open your reserve into a big fat ball of shite not clean air. In australia wingsuits are only to be flown by sport parachutists who hold a D license and to be honest it is a great idea. However just because you can do something doesnt necessarily mean you should, if you cant deploy a parachute stabily when flying one you shouldnt be doing it. I suggest you start reading up on deployment issues because you are obviously very naive when it comes to this VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT.

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liver of the dream

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[virgin-burner 1]

uhm, no offense, but i think he was talking about BASEjumping!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jenkincb00 0]

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uhm, no offense, but i think he was talking about BASEjumping!?

umm...no offense but I would say stability in BASE is more important than stability in skydiving...longer bridal, bigger pilot chute (hell some of them rival the size of a DHT drogue), basically more to get wrapped around you and less time to react to it. Also more difficult to be stable with the lower airspeed. Free packed or not if the pc is wrapped around your leg or stuck under a wing of your suit I'm pretty sure your SOL and in store for a very bad day.

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[virgin-burner 1]

nobody ever doubted that!? zero-wind exits are kinda tricky, and not the easiest.. adding a wingsuit into the mix, and you might be in for a bad surprise..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[JohanW 0]

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.. i was taught a 3 fundemental rules that are vital to a good deployment : 1. PULL 2.PULL STABLE 3.PULL AT CORRECT ALTITUDE .. I suggest you start reading up on deployment issues because you are obviously very naive when it comes to this VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT.

Are you sure those are the pull priorities you were taught? In that order?

I suggest you take some of your own advice. And maybe work on your people skills and your spelling.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[JohnRich 4]

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h john - i know sometimes posting in here sucks big time, but could we just play it nice once in a while?

People who say things that obviously don't know what they're talking about, need to be called out for it. Otherwise, some new guys might actually believe what they say.
If that is deemed as "playing bad", so be it.

[hikeat 0]

I am more experienced than my profile reflects, 252 skydives and 77 BASE jumps. I realize that I am by no means a skygod like you, but I have seen many people pitch while spinning, on thier back, head high head low... and the parachute flips them over. There are BASE jumpers who pitch on thier backs and between their legs for shits and giggles.

If the bridle becomes entangled with multiple points on the jumper, it can cause it to lock off, but I would call that a PC in tow or a bridle entanglement. Since I don't get it, could someone please explain to me how a canopy can be pulled off the jumpers back and wrap around him? Please keep in mind that all the lines are in a tailpocket, except a few inches near the risers, and that the canopy is being extracted from the rig by a single point with a lot of force.

[hchunter614 0]

I do believe that the 3 pull priorities are

1. PULL
2. Pull at the correct altitude
3. Pull at the correct altitude while stable

Altitude over stability ALWAYS or you may spend your last feet getting stable.

[hchunter614 0]

Jumper is barrel rolling while deploying is 1 way that you could get wrapped in your lines while deploying. There are an endless number of ways the jumper can become entangled in the lines. Does it happen frequently, no, but the possibility still exists.

[feuergnom 22]

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h john - i know sometimes posting in here sucks big time, but could we just play it nice once in a while?

People who say things that obviously don't know what they're talking about, need to be called out for it. Otherwise, some new guys might actually believe what they say.
If that is deemed as "playing bad", so be it.

I hear ya man, I hear ya... actually we are on the same side of this

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[hikeat 0]

OK, I will concede that maybe it is extremely remotely possible to get tangled in your own canopy while deploying. However, I doubt that someone with 50 previouse wingsuit jumps would be unstable to the point of barrel rolling or tumbling through the sky. That is why I asked what was meant by the jumper was "unstable." Flying wobbly or dirty would not, by itself, cause a parachute entalglement. I find the cause of the fatality hard to believe and at the very least probably missing some information: like was a low pull a contributing factor or was he using antiquated equipment with lines freestowed in the container?

Was an investigation done on the incident?

[JohnRich 4]

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I doubt that someone with 50 previouse wingsuit jumps would be unstable to the point of barrel rolling or tumbling through the sky.

The initial post said he had 50 jumps, not 50 wingsuit jumps. On top of that, this was a balloon jump, with zero initial airspeed, unlike a jump from an aircraft. Yeah, he had B.A.S.E. experience, but when you push off from a cliff or a building, it doesn't give way beneath your feet like a balloon basket can. Put those elements together: no airspeed, first jump on a wingsuit, mushy exit - and it's real easy to understand how he could be unstable. Then you throw low altitude into the mix on top of all that, and you've got a fatality. Very simple, really. Too many new things, while too close to the ground.

[stinkydragon 0]

I had personally done numerous wingsuit base jumps with him. He had very good situational awareness and was an expert in multiple alpine sports.

I am not interested in discussing this further. I just wanted to establish that despite his general disdain for, and avoidance of the skydiving industry he was not a kook, gumby, idiot or whatever other names people like to throw around.

[skypuppy 1]

OK, I will concede that maybe it is extremely remotely possible to get tangled in your own canopy while deploying.
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so now at the revised totals of 250 skydives and 75 base-jumps, you are an expert, who can't see the problem? Altho you do concede a remote possibility....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[feuergnom 22]

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he was not a kook, gumby, idiot or whatever other names people like to throw around.

i just reread all related threads but found none of the above. what is questioned is what other ws-instructors would have done in the given situation.

as for expertise in other alpine sports: sorry but these are _IMHO_ irrelevant.

i am sorry you have lost a friend due to bad decisions made

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666