larskjargaard 0 #1 July 8, 2009 can anyone offer a good track dive briefing, small and large group? Any other tips or advice would be valuable too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 277 #2 July 8, 2009 Yeah, I'd like to know too. (I don't know if this is the best forum though, as tracking dives aren't a part of what Instructors are taught to teach. Since there's no tracking forum, put a link in the general skydiving forum? ) One common flight path is to fly off to the side of the jump run and then fly downwind. How does one handle the complexity of briefing two 90 degree turns for newbies, especially when a lot of people are involved, who will get strung out across the sky? There are messy angles involved. Obvious answers are to limit the number of people, and to not make the turns happen too quickly after exit. Last weekend at my DZ we had the luxury of getting a dedicated jump run downwind, so everyone could fly a straight line, great for those new to tracking dives. And what does one do for heavy people, if the formation is led by someone of average build? To some degree the heavier folks just sink out. And to some degree avoiding fall rate issues is just about dressing right, which takes some work. But unlike for RW, I don't recall all lighter people saying that they're going to wear 15 lbs of lead for the tracking dive. How about tips for dealing with a lot of separation between the first and last out? The last out ends up high and infront of the leaders. I guess sometimes the leaders just get the track going and soon get out infront, leaving someone last out (but slow to get going), able to do a relatively straightforward diving approach. But otherwise, being high and infront can lead to some very different strategies on how to get down to the formation, with possible collision potential. Then there's the issue of what the basic maneuvering concepts should be for those new to tracking dives. As for any track, the track can be controlled by the pitch angle adopted. But in addition to that, especially for fine tuning one's flight path, I'm used to the idea of spreading or retracting limbs horizontally to adjust forward speed . And arching or dearching is used to control vertical speed. But I don't know what is taught at bigger DZs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #3 July 8, 2009 I spent a lot of my jumps on tracking dives as they're my favourite form of freefall, concentrating on that rather than FF or RW so I might be able to give an opinion from the receiving end. I've had some really good briefs, and some bloody awful ones, and they seem to depend generally on two things - the familiarity of the rabbit with leading the local DZ and on leading a tracking dive, and the experience of who's on the load. To be as thorough as possible, I'll give what I found to be the best brief I've received: It was for a 15 way dive, with an extremely experienced rabbit, a couple 1000 jump followers, a handful of us who were around 80 - 150 jumps, and the rest were dz regulars of over 200 jumps. The Rabbit gave an initial overview brief to everyone. This included exit order, lining up the least experienced floating closest to him, and the most experienced diving. He then gave a 'this isn't a combat jump' speech and proceeded to give us slots to try and fly in a V formation. If someone was obviously not getting there, we cound move up a slot, but other than that the idea was to fly our position, NOT get as close as possible. He specifically stated that grips weren't to be taken, but that it looked better if everyone was just flying tight. He gave a flight plan and explained that it would get faster towards the end. He gave a planned breakoff altitude, signal and explained the breakoff plan. Once that was done, he let everyone but the least experienced of us go, and gave us a mini-brief of our own. This included a mock-up of how to exit properly - staggered, with the first person jumping off the plane, the second falling, the third jumping, and so on, in order to get as much clean air as possible. He then talked about what migh happen when we were tracking - too low, too high, too fast etc, and what to do in each case, but he emphasised not to stop tracking, that's when it really gets away from you. He then briefed on decision altitudes - when was safe to call it a day and decide to get away from the group in the other direction etc (this was a full plane load, so no worry about tracking down jump run). Then finished with a 'if it all goes OK, you'll have to buy beer for being on your first full tracking load tonight! Have fun!' and a big smile. That set everyone in the right mood. [/:)] The worst dives I've been on are where there's no communication at all - it's a free for all at the door, a carnage jump in the air, and you end up landing off because the rabbit doesn't turn where they're supposed to... Those are my tow extreme experiences. Tracking is fun! Edit: this obviously doesn't look at the skill of the Rabbit - being able to control the pace and glide of the dive. I've led a few, but that's a skill I've yet to master! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larskjargaard 0 #4 July 8, 2009 thanks for the input. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #5 July 8, 2009 QuoteYeah, I'd like to know too. Excellent set of questions, Peter. I might add that first a group needs to identify what the purpose of the tracking dive is. I have always assumed that it is "relative work while tracking", and being a pilot, doing formation flying is very appealing to me. (Makes for good pictures and video too.) However, I have had people tell me that their idea of a tracking dive is to get good at tracking, and therefore just track like hell, and leave anyone behind that can't keep up, in fall rate or distance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wormly81 0 #6 July 8, 2009 QuoteHe then talked about what migh happen when we were tracking - too low, too high, too fast etc, and what to do in each case, but he emphasised not to stop tracking, that's when it really gets away from you. anyone care to expound upon these ideas? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #7 July 8, 2009 QuoteHowever, I have had people tell me that their idea of a tracking dive is to get good at tracking, and therefore just track like hell, and leave anyone behind that can't keep up, in fall rate or distance. This only works of all the jumpers in the group are of similar abilities, and even then it's really just a drag race. Most of the time it's stupid, especially because the closer you get to your max., the less ability you have to manuver around the base. You use all of your energy just staying with the base. When was the last time you saw freeflyers trying to dock in a full head-down dive, no arms or legs in the wind? Probably never. Or the last time you saw an RW group where everyone was at max. arch, with their legs up and arms in? Also never. A good tracking dive will move at a moderate speed, and a moderate angle. This gives the flyers the most manuverability to fly around the base. There will always be lightweights and big boys who have to work extra hard to stay with it, but that's nothing new to those types, they're used to it. However, I do suggest that for the last 10 seconds before break off, the base does pick up the pace and flatten out the glide. The faster guys can keep up, and the slower guys get left behind, and what you end up with is some seperation of the group, not a bad thing at break off time. If the fast guys want to prove who's the biggest badass, let them do it at the end, where it's not such a drag for everyone else, and actually does some good. If they want to run the whole jump that way, just be up front and tell everyone the way it will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viss 0 #8 August 7, 2009 i think it's important to hit on the fact that you are now controlling your body in a third dimension, not just two like RW/FF... In addition to controlling fall rate and side to side or front/back movement relative to others, you have to control horizontal speed. I like to explain the safety rules of tracking as if we were briefing for a CRW jump, as CRW/Wingsuit/tracking are all the same thing when it comes to approaching other jumpers. Never approach at more than a 45 deg angle to the formation, get in your slot slightly behind and then move in, if you sink out move to the side and hug the beach ball and keep tracking, if you fall behind increase your angle slightly as you're flying too flat/floaty etc etc. My favorite tracking dives are the "flocks" where you fly with the other people at a medium pace, allowing easy movement and transitions to back/belly etc. If you want to have a drag race or work on your maximum tracking, do a solo or a small group of similarly skilled people. If you take a large group out and dust all the "low timers" then that can put a bad taste in their mouth or make them feel like they can't do tracking dives well enough to dedicate time and jump $ to it. Possibly turning them off to my absolute favorite things (CRW/WS/Tracking) :-) I like this thread, lets keep it going for a while WamegoPaul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kami-kaze 0 #9 August 11, 2009 I like tracking. If there is a tracking load I'd like to be on one. Wish there are more. Doing the Mok-up and getting the exit order helps ... Also dressing for success. Baggy cloths for most people other than light weights. No booties. I'm a light weight so jumping with heavy people (meaning most others) have been a challenge... ie) when others are sit flying I'm standing. But these experiences have given me the range to fly. Also I appreciate it when a heavy guy is making himself really big and me flying a chicken track. I think every track jump with someone else with different fall rate makes you better at it and one day you find yourself jumping in bigger ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roostnureye 2 #10 October 14, 2009 care to elaborate on why "no booties"Flock University FWC / ZFlock B.A.S.E. 1580 Aussie BASE 121 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #11 October 15, 2009 Carry a cell phone with you.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Don 0 #12 October 15, 2009 Good advice.I am NOT being loud. I'm being enthusiastic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sebinoslo 0 #13 October 15, 2009 Quotecare to elaborate on why "no booties" booties really change your tracking angle. just make it really really hard for someone with booties to track with someone without. one good basic explantion regarding tracking: your upper body determines your falling/tracking angle while your lower body determines your speed (straight leg = max speed, bending knees forward = slower speed) we had a tracking weekend with an insanely good rabbit and he talked about few extra things: - how he would indicate a turn was going to happen (pointing few times with the corresponding arm and engaging the turn rigth after) - how he would indicated separation (winking both arms like a wingsuit) - separation altitude for those far from the core was higher to provide more separation. - the group would usually follow the line of flight for few seconds before making the first 90 degree turn, allowing everyone to be grouped. Another tip: if you want to join the base, you cannot aim straight at the base but much further ahead of it (to come at a flat angle). he recommended to aim at about 10 times the actual distance between yourself and the base. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #14 October 15, 2009 QuoteQuotecare to elaborate on why "no booties" booties ... just make it really really hard for someone with booties to track with someone without. . DISAGREE - that is simply not true.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #15 October 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuotecare to elaborate on why "no booties" booties ... just make it really really hard for someone with booties to track with someone without. . DISAGREE - that is simply not true. What it will do is make it hard for someone without booties to keep up with some one with, IF they are pushing it. If the leader is on his back, then its a non issue. The tracker with booties will simply relax his track even more.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roostnureye 2 #16 November 3, 2009 agreed 100%, we do tracking dives in clewiston all the time, half with booties half without, ive seen good camera fliers without booties outfly newer guys with booties all day long.Flock University FWC / ZFlock B.A.S.E. 1580 Aussie BASE 121 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites