T.I.'s and helmet policies

[MotherGoose 0]

I've done a half-assed search and I did not find my specific question. So I ask :

What are the hard and fast rules for tandem instructor's wearing helmets ? Is there a global rule? Do manufacturers get involved? How do rules in different parts of the world compare? If helmets are not mandatory, I'd like to know why? What is the reasoning ? Thanks in advance.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[rhys 0]

In New Zealand helmets are mandatory and the customers have to use a soft helmet to protect the instructor.

In Australia they are not required and neither the customer or the instructor wears them.

While here in Australia I use earplugs as i see that as the most hazardous aspect aside from the odd riser slap (ouch)

So I guess it comes down to the operations regulations of each individual country or governing organization.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[skydiverton2 0]

In germany required, in the netherlands not.

I do not really understand the purpose of a helmet on a tandem other than looking silly on video and preventing good communication with the passenger

Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid.
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Also in case you jump a sport rig!!!

[pchapman 261]

MotherGoose knows this but for completeness:

In Canada, at CSPA dropzones, jumpers acting as Coaches or Instructors must wear a helmet.

(Not that that is always followed.)

(Helmets are actually required for all jumpers, except those with a D licence, where the DZO allows it.)

[diablopilot 2]

In the US there is no helmet requirement for a Tandem Instructor or Student.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jurgencamps 0]

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I do not really understand the purpose of a helmet on a tandem other than looking silly on video and preventing good communication with the passenger

This is only valid for a full face helmet, not for an open helmet.

Jurgen

[Andrewwhyte 1]

CSPA BSR 2.4 mandates all instructors to wear helmets.

[peek 20]

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I do not really understand the purpose of a helmet on a tandem other than looking silly on video and preventing good communication with the passenger

When it is cold I think it helps make the student more comfortable.

Other than that, in case wind conditions changed, an off-field landing happened, and a landing were to go so bad that the student's head were close to the ground.

If a pilot lets a larger aircraft stall when a large formation is getting out, and the jumpers remaining in the plane are tossed about.

(Granted, these are rare, but head protection is simple and easy.)

[matthewcline 0]

In the US once certified it is as JP stated.
Only one rig manufacturer gets involved in Helmets and only really for the certification course. All manufacturers recomend a helmet for both Instructor and Student, a hard shell for the Instructor and Frap Hat type for the Student.


Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[RoryJ 0]

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I do not really understand the purpose of a helmet on a tandem other than looking silly on video and preventing good communication with the passenger

I have a bit of a problem with this statement. I went without a helmet for my first 30-50 tandems, just to get the wind in my hair and all. After the second time someone stood up in the doorway of the Otter, cracking my head open and me seeing blood on my hand after checking the top of my head, I wore a helmet every time.

An open face helmet is a good idea on any student jump, AFF or tandem. I want that extra little bit of protection that it provides and it works great as a Dytter holder.

Not again!

[MotherGoose 0]

Thanks for all the great responses. If helmets are required when you are a solo student, I just can't wrap my mind around the lack of requirement for tandem instructors. Basically, the person in control needs to protect their head (in-air collision with camera flyer, exit head impact at the door, etc.).

The student in front of the T.I. is just baggage, I can understand (not necessarily agree with) why they don't need a helmet, but the instructor, who is the pilot, is exposing him/herself to more risks, no ?? If the T.I. gets knocked out, what are the chances of the student pulling ? Then, what will the canopy ride be like (main or reserve), probably not pretty.

That being said, how many incidents have their been where lack of head protection was responsible for an injury or death on a tandem? It may be a non-issue.

Thanks again for all your input.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[pchapman 261]

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After the second time someone stood up in the doorway of the Otter, cracking my head open [...]I wore a helmet every time.

Very useful to hear that, to contrast with an argument I've been told a couple times:

"We don't need helmets on our instructors because we're jumping from a big plane (Otter or Caravan) so it isn't like you guys trying to squeeze out of a 182."

[wmw999 2,120]

There has been at least one tandem student fatality from a head injury. One option other than frap hats that might be softer for the TM would be something like a karate helmet -- it's just foam, and the prices are comparable with Protecs.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rhys 0]

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I just can't wrap my mind around the lack of requirement for tandem instructors. Basically, the person in control needs to protect their head (in-air collision with camera flyer, exit head impact at the door, etc.).

[sarcasm]don't you know that tandem instructors are immortal, they don't need helmets or RSL's that shit is for pussies.[/sarcasm]

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[jgaley69 0]

There is through Strong, asking that all students where frap hats.

jgaley69
www.jumpelvis.com

[CReW 0]

There IS one universal rule.
An unconscious instructor can't do his job.

[fincher 0]

in the winter i wear a hat that is lined with faux rabbit fur. There is another universal rule. An instructor with frostbit ears cant hear his student scream for mercy.

i'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your packing tent down

[NSEMN8R 0]

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If helmets are not mandatory, I'd like to know why? What is the reasoning ? Thanks in advance.

I would agree that TMs should wear a helmet. I strongly disagree that there should be a rule or law that says we HAVE to wear them. Shame on you if you're suggesting there should be.

[MotherGoose 0]

Now now, I'm not throwing around the "R" word in hopes of pushing any more rules onto the sport. I do often pause though when an aspect of this sport appears to have double standards. Why such strict rules for first-time solos, but when you are just a first-time joyrider, your life is in the hands of someone whom rules do not apply to ?

I was mainly looking for examples of problems with no helmets which, aside from one above, there doesn't seem to be an abundance of. Obviously this is not that big of an issue.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[skypuppy 1]

I was mainly looking for examples of problems with no helmets which, aside from one above, there doesn't seem to be an abundance of. Obviously this is not that big of an issue.

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It only takes once to ruin your day, AND your student's....

There actually has been, as Wendy said, at least one fatality in recent years involving a freefall collision between tandem and videographer.

Other than that, the most common complaint I hear is getting your ears taken off by the risers on deployment.

But as far as I can figure out, it IS a rule in Canada that instructors wear headgear on ALL instructional jumps, despite the fact that I see pictures of tandem instructors and examiner's doing jumps without....

Wouldn't jumping without be breaking a bsr and negate the instructor defense fund or school insurance? Of course in reality, the insurance company would probably settle anyway rather than risk the instructor/school loosing the lawsuit and setting a precedent the insurers would have to fight later in future court actions....

That seems to be the trend.

The other thing is, I don't think cspa issues tandem ratings -- most people I know who get them go through a manufacturer's instructor examiner. So what would cspa do, they can't pull a tandem rating they didn't issue. Of course, they could pull cspa coach or instructor ratings, since you need a valid one to get an tandem instructor rating, but that would upset dzo's who wouldn't have people to do tandems or other instructional services, wouldn't it?

So they might pull out of cspa, too, and join caps....

Either way, cspa loses.

Maybe the helmet bsr should be revisited. Flagrant violations of a bsr can't look good to anyone -- they changed the rule for fun jumps, probably should change it for all jumps, to eliminate the way people follow SOME rules, but not ALL rules.

Just my opinion.

Rob

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[tetra316 0]

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The student in front of the T.I. is just baggage, I can understand (not necessarily agree with) why they don't need a helmet, but the instructor, who is the pilot, is exposing him/herself to more risks, no ?? If the T.I. gets knocked out, what are the chances of the student pulling ? Then, what will the canopy ride be like (main or reserve), probably not pretty.

The student should not wear a hard helmet due to possibly knocking the instructor unconscious if they whip their head back. Frap hats are fine. It's much better to land with an unconscious student than an unconscious instructor!

[fincher 0]

i seriously doubt that a helmet would have helped in that freefall collision. especially a frap hat. I'm not yet convinced those things offer any real protection. Just as most skydiving helmets dont. they will protect a TM from risers burning your ears. And from scratching your head on the door during exit. they will hold a dyter (if you use one for a tandem). they will keep your head a little warmer on cold days. They will keep a students hair out of the three rings. They will help hold goggles on.

any other uses? anybody?

protection from a frap or thin shell helmet.......Not worth a damn for a collision or hard impact. I guess they might soak up some of the blood.

i'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your packing tent down

[tetra316 0]

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i seriously doubt that a helmet would have helped in that freefall collision. especially a frap hat. I'm not yet convinced those things offer any real protection. Just as most skydiving helmets dont. they will protect a TM from risers burning your ears. And from scratching your head on the door during exit. they will hold a dyter (if you use one for a tandem). they will keep your head a little warmer on cold days. They will keep a students hair out of the three rings. They will help hold goggles on.

any other uses? anybody?

protection from a frap or thin shell helmet.......Not worth a damn for a collision or hard impact. I guess they might soak up some of the blood.

I'm not talking about any incidient or protection against one. Just in general why I feel a student should not wear a hard helmet.

[MotherGoose 0]

Interesting thing to note here, it seems that there are opposing mentalities on the subject between neighboring countries around the world :

MANDATORY_______________NOT MANDATORY
Canada______________________United States
New Zealand_________________ Australia
Germany_____________________Netherlands

I wonder if there are other similar examples? Also, why does such a divide exist? Shouldn't something like this be universally YES or NO ?

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[NSEMN8R 0]

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Shouldn't something like this be universally YES or NO ?

It should be the opposite of that.

Why should one group of people's opinion on what is "safe enough" be forced upon another group?

When it comes to shit like jumping out of planes, shouldn't we all (even students) be treated like adults who can decide for themselves how much risk is acceptable?

I know the people who try to make rules to protect people from themselves all mean well. I still don't like it. What's happening to personal responsibility?

By the way, is there a big difference in the number of tandem head injuries between the countries with these opposing mentalities?