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ozzy13

Coaching and Instucting with video

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Holy buzzards in basket...where do you find a vidiot like that? I'm pretty sure Harry and Norm are staying busy these days and traveling quite a bit.

Joe is in demand as well – and BTW, I happen to work with the finest camera flyers (also AFF rated) available. Still, I prefer to work with my student one on one with NO possibility of interference or distraction.

In defense of the full time skydiver whose sole vocation is skydiving with no other source of income. We have to earn a living…

That being said, me personally, I still spent hours and hours ground training and giving free refresher courses, jump with low timers on my own nickel and shoot videos on my own dime on a regular basis just for the love of the sport. So I can understand both sides of the issue. If you say, built houses for a living and Jimmy Carter started taking bread off your children’s table building his humanity houses in your area for free I can understand some frustration from the working man.

A little understanding can go a long way…

Reminds me of a little joke:
What do you call a fulltime skydiver without a girlfriend???

Homeless...
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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...Any good camera flyer should be in tune with what is happening in the skydive....

...Furthermore, a good camera flyer will be...
- staying clear of the students field of view,
- framing things so as to illustrate the important parts of the dive.
- Making sure to film the handle during practice touches and the actual pull
- getting the hand signals in there, or
- catching an angle that highlights a bad body postition,

the video becomes that much more valuable.

All you have to do is the above, plus fly the light so the picture isn't washed out, plus stay clear of the action, and you're gold.



Holy buzzards in basket...where do you find a vidiot like that? I'm pretty sure Harry and Norm are staying busy these days and traveling quite a bit.



I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but it's not hard to get most of that done. Most of the AFF instructors at my DZ don't recommend video for AFF jumps due to the possible distraction, but they allow it. Then when they watch the video with the student and debrief it, they're glad it was done.

I mostly stay high and off to the main side, out of the student's field of vision. For practice pulls I get a bit behind where I can see the handle and the student's hand. When they finish with practice pulls I move back toward the front, but usually stay a little high and still off to the side to see body position and hand signals.

Some of the instructors will often turn the student to face the sun too (when it's possible to choose a heading)... I don't ask for it, but they know what will get the best video.

I don't often get the "money shot" on aff videos... sometimes barely even get the student's face because I'm high. But I try to get useful debrief video, not tandem-style video.

Dave

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Holy buzzards in basket...where do you find a vidiot like that? I'm pretty sure Harry and Norm are staying busy these days and traveling quite a bit.



If the guys you work with aren't like this, then you need to speak up. Maybe debrief the video with the video guy at the end of the day.

If you throw three 'legs out' to the student with no response, show the video guy this, and suggest catching an angle that will show the legs being up.

If the student is geeking the camera, and you have to singal the student to do a COA, or worse, a pull signal, show this to the video guy and talk to him about the dive flow, and making sure the student's focus is where it needs to be. There's a time to be shooting front and center, and a time to get the hell out of the way.

Speaking of that, a good video guy will lurk off to the side, and catch a face shot or two as the student turns to look at the instructor for a COA. This way if there is no 'free time' for the face shots, all is not lost.

Look at it this way, a good AFF I will be keeping control over the student, doing a body scan, putting up hand signals, watching the altitude, remembering the hand signals and key altitudes, and the really good ones will also turn the students toward the light and read and remember the hand signals the other AFF I is presenting. How do they do it? They work at it, think about different situations beforehand, debrief themselves and their own performance after a dive, and just plain try hard.

If a camera man was to approach his job with the same attitude, you'd get the same level of performance and reliability you get from a good AFF I.

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I jump my camera on almost every jump. Regardless of if it is a work jump or not. If it is an AFF or coach jump the student doesn't even know that I am jumping a camera until we are ready to head out to the plane. At this point it is obvious that the student is not buying a video and there will be no complaints about me taking money out of pockets. Perhaps if those who complained to you would sell their services instead of waiting for it to come to them all the time they would be more successful. I have never heard anyone complain about a coach or AFFI using a video on their jumps at my DZ. I encourage it due to the increased aid in post jump debreifing as well as using past videos to show students good examples.
Chris Scaife

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I find that the best video for debriefing comes from about 8 o'clock or 4 o'clock high. This keeps the video flyer out of view of the student as well as giving a good side view of their body position. The view in these pics are a bit to longitudinal to show the student that his knees are down. We can see it from the first still, but it may not be quite so obvious to the student.
You said you like to be main side; I wonder why. On one on ones the reserve side will give a better view. If the student is going to be dumped out it is usually the main side instructor doing the dumping. If you are in his field of view it simplifies his life. I realize you get a better shot of the student's pull hand from the main side but I could not see myself dumping my student out without spending some time looking for the video guy.

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Ok thanks . My post is really on the money side of this. Some people feel that if I as a coach wear my camera on those jumps its taking money out of their pockets. I feel if the student wants a video of the jump that's fine they can pay for it from the out side. But I like using the video in the debrief and they think if the student doesn't pay then I shouldn't wear it. Its not like im cutting them a DVD or anything. Just using it for the debrief. I caught shit for it.


The fact that someone buys a camera does'nt automatically entitle them to videoman money. If they don't like the arrangement, they can get an instructional rating. I personally prefer to have a rating holder flying video anyway.

John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

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I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but it's not hard to get most of that done.



Dave! I just saw your pics!
What I would give for good stuff like that on an AFF jump!
Beautiful!

I'm dragging all our vidiots to this to show them just what good stuff really is.

I hope you don't mind. If you do, just say so and I'll delete them. I saved copies of the pics to my Training folder on our public DZ desktop.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I was talking to some people and I was getting different views on this.

I was wondering what people thought when doing coach jumps or AFF if you wore a camera to help in your teaching process

Some people got upset with me for doing this on coach jumps. I would review the jump with them in the debrief. Some people were upset, saying I was taking money out of pockets. I would not give them a copy . It was for education purposes only.

Any opinions?



Tell those people to fuck themselves. I ALWAYS wear a camera on my AFF/coaching jumps for debriefing purposes. A side-mounted camera with a .3 lens is a no-brainer in this scenario. Having "outside" video on anything other than a tandem or a level 1/Cat A skydive doesn't make any sense to me when I am going to get all the same debriefing footage with my own camera. Outside is great for those students who want to show their friends at home what they did this weekend or on vacation, but having video guys whine at you for enhancing your ability to debrief your student at no additional cost to them is stupid. Tell those guys to get some ratings or stick to tandem videos. Just my opinion.

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I do not wear a cameye or ringsight, just a closed box setup with a PC style camcorder, so no indicator lights or ringsights to create distractions or added snagablilty. I want to have all of my attention on the student in the air, so I just reach back and hit the record button when the red light goes on, if I get the jump fine but I do not concentrate on framing – I fly as if the camera was not there as it is secondary to safety.



Likewise. My setup is exactly the same.

Chuck

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I recently became an AFFI but I was using a video for coaching Gs and Hs in the ISP. I have a Go Pro Wide on one of my helmets. It weighs about 5 ounces and if I remember to turn it on it is an invaluable teaching aid. Student talks through the jump, instructor debriefs the jump and then we go to the video. It is a great tool. It is completely unobtrusive but if I remember to turn it on it is worth a thousand words.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

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