Baksteen 84 #51 March 3, 2009 QuoteWe are talking about completing STUDENT status and taking responsibility for yourself and your own safety. Skill is not a jump number, a license or a safety net. Again, no one is saying that once you get your "A" you are on your own. You are very much in need of further guidance and mentoring for a long time after. But don't "expect" everyone to run up to wipe your ass when you are done shitting any more. With the "A" license comes RESPONSIBILITY. To yourself and to your fellow skydiver.Quote Exactly. The A-licence demonstrates that a person can complete certain tasks and is a crude indication of jump#s. However, too many people in this sport think that just because they got their A/B/C/D and because they are alllowed to do stuff, they should. Hence the statement about the minimum skill set. My point is that the challenge for the DZ-staff is to estimate how much responsibility a person can handle and how soon."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #52 March 31, 2009 I jump a (reasonably complicated) camera setup. A few weeks ago (USPA safety day) two jumpers were discussing video cameras, mounts, ringsights etc and asked me over to get my opinion and advice on their new gear. I started to give some advice about mounting, lenses etc, and as you do, I enquired about their jump experience. One had 110 jumps, the other 130. Both already had camera helmets (no stills just video, although one had a stills mount). I explained the USPA's recommendation of a 200 jump minimum and (my version of) the thinking behind that recommendation. They quietened down and thanked me for my time - the conversation drifted off but I was left with an odd feeling it wouldn't be the last I saw of that. They'd already got all the gear after all... A few hours later, I hosted a seminar for Safety Day at my DZ for freefly safety - one aspect of which touched on video and stills in freefall, snag hazards etc. One of the guys I'd spoken to earlier in the day was present and intently listening for the duration of the talk. Later that afternoon, I see the pair walking to the plane. All kitted out with their new camera gear. I didn't mention it again. Twice he'd heard me say 200 jump recommendation, and the reasons behind it. Then perhaps he just thought "fuck it, I'll be fine - I'll take it carefully". I've honestly no idea what people think in these situations but I doubt it's an actual "what the hell does he know I'm invincible", more likely just "it'll be fine..." As an (new) Instructor, I gave the best advice I can. However, I can't force someone to sit down and frankly I wouldn't want to. His choices are his choices. If he wanted to jump a 120 at 150 jumps (as another skydiver I know does) I cant stop that either - but I can tell him how bad an idea I think it'll be. Of course, if the same jumper was in the door with a cheststrap undone I'd grab the fool and drag his ass back in the plane. There's a line however between common sense and about-to-die. I'd like to think i'd try and stop an about-to-die situation. I can't however stop people without much common sense... When I'm paid to look after someone I share the responsibility - when it's AFF, I own that responsibility as the student often doesn't know better. When I'm funjumping or simply on the ground, if someone makes a bad decision after seeking advice, it's honestly not my place to force them to not jump. And I'm not sure if I'd like that responsibility either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #53 April 16, 2009 I was one of those new jumpers you described getting camera gear before the USPA recommendations. I think it was around 80 jumps. I talked to my instructor and he gave me similar advise you described, and I didn't listen. As time and jumps past I found myself in my instructors shoes. I was giving similar advise to a new jumper that wanted to start flying a camera and telling him he should wait. Guess what, he didn't listen either. So whats my point? I really don't have one, I just thought it was funny that I am not the only asshole that has had to deal with this... Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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RossDagley 0 #52 March 31, 2009 I jump a (reasonably complicated) camera setup. A few weeks ago (USPA safety day) two jumpers were discussing video cameras, mounts, ringsights etc and asked me over to get my opinion and advice on their new gear. I started to give some advice about mounting, lenses etc, and as you do, I enquired about their jump experience. One had 110 jumps, the other 130. Both already had camera helmets (no stills just video, although one had a stills mount). I explained the USPA's recommendation of a 200 jump minimum and (my version of) the thinking behind that recommendation. They quietened down and thanked me for my time - the conversation drifted off but I was left with an odd feeling it wouldn't be the last I saw of that. They'd already got all the gear after all... A few hours later, I hosted a seminar for Safety Day at my DZ for freefly safety - one aspect of which touched on video and stills in freefall, snag hazards etc. One of the guys I'd spoken to earlier in the day was present and intently listening for the duration of the talk. Later that afternoon, I see the pair walking to the plane. All kitted out with their new camera gear. I didn't mention it again. Twice he'd heard me say 200 jump recommendation, and the reasons behind it. Then perhaps he just thought "fuck it, I'll be fine - I'll take it carefully". I've honestly no idea what people think in these situations but I doubt it's an actual "what the hell does he know I'm invincible", more likely just "it'll be fine..." As an (new) Instructor, I gave the best advice I can. However, I can't force someone to sit down and frankly I wouldn't want to. His choices are his choices. If he wanted to jump a 120 at 150 jumps (as another skydiver I know does) I cant stop that either - but I can tell him how bad an idea I think it'll be. Of course, if the same jumper was in the door with a cheststrap undone I'd grab the fool and drag his ass back in the plane. There's a line however between common sense and about-to-die. I'd like to think i'd try and stop an about-to-die situation. I can't however stop people without much common sense... When I'm paid to look after someone I share the responsibility - when it's AFF, I own that responsibility as the student often doesn't know better. When I'm funjumping or simply on the ground, if someone makes a bad decision after seeking advice, it's honestly not my place to force them to not jump. And I'm not sure if I'd like that responsibility either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #53 April 16, 2009 I was one of those new jumpers you described getting camera gear before the USPA recommendations. I think it was around 80 jumps. I talked to my instructor and he gave me similar advise you described, and I didn't listen. As time and jumps past I found myself in my instructors shoes. I was giving similar advise to a new jumper that wanted to start flying a camera and telling him he should wait. Guess what, he didn't listen either. So whats my point? I really don't have one, I just thought it was funny that I am not the only asshole that has had to deal with this... Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
