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ozzy13

Tandem Rating

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Canidates may earn the USPA Tandem Instructor rating
who have met all the following requirements:
a. reached the age of 18 years
b. holds or has held any USPA instructional rating
c. earned a USPA D license or the FAI equivalent
d. logged 500 jumps on a ram-air canopy

e. three years in the sport?????

f. presented a current FAA Class 3 Medical
Certificate or the equivalent
(1) USPA will issue a Tandem Instructor rating,
even if the medical certificate will expire prior
to the expiration date of the rating.
(2) Each USPA Tandem Instructor is responsible
to keep his or her medical certificate current


I have several question and situations that I like to talk about:

1 When do you start counting the three years?
A.When you do your first Tandem
B. When you join USPA

The reason I ask is (scenario) Say I do a tandem In 2003 but don't go threw AFF till 2007. That means I am in the sport 5 years and can get my rating as soon as I hit 500 jumps. Realistically I'm only in the sport for one year but because I did a tandem in 03 I meet the requirements.

This makes no sense to me. If a jumper started jumping in 06 and has 1000 jumps but only two years in the sport is less qualified then the guy that did a tandem in 03 and in 07 started jumping again but really is in the sport one year.

PLEASE make some sense of this or give a reason behind it.
Thanks
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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Just another requirement that is open to interpretation. I am definately going to get some slack for this one but I feel that there should be a jump requirement/Freefall requirement, which is a bit more concrete....IE 1000 jumps and 10-12 Hours of freefall. My personal thought, based on the responsibility of the rating....(Someone elses life)
That being said the reason for the three year requirement is to stop the guy who does 500 jumps in year 1 and becomes eligible for the tandem rating.
Maybe it should be 3 continuous years with no recurrency or lapse for more than an amount of time.

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So the guy that does a tandem in 03 can go get his rating???? when that guy is the same guy you are talking about. ( doing 500 jumps in one year) That makes NO sense!!!!
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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You'll notice it says, "In sport."
The implied letter being as in maintaining currency as defined by the USPA or FAI equivelant.

I believe there was a time long long ago in a land far far away when all Instructor ratings required 3 years in the sport.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Not being a wise ass but show me where it states three current years in sport???
It simply states three years in the sport.

After your first tandem you are a skydiver (using that term loosely) I think after you first solo jump.

I understand that this rating involves other people that have know idea whats going on. I would like to clarify this to remove the grey area that is there.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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"Three years" is whatever the examiner who signs your paperwork thinks is three years.



Yea im sure USPA would love to see that post!!!

Para5-0 is a IE
Is that how you interpret it???
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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My understanding of three years in sport is three continuos years starting from your first tandem and hopefully going through a particular training method while joining USPA in the same time period. No that does not cover all senarios.
In your case assuming you did the above, it would be the anniversary of your tandem jump.
What the question here is, "When does time in sport start?"
a. After landing safely from your first tandem.
b. After making your first AFF/AFP/IAD/SL...etc
c. After joining USPA
d. After graduating to solo status
e. After receiving your A license.

It needs to be clarified...by someone with way more intelect than I...(Safety & Training Comittee have at it)

I would suggest time in sport starts after completing your first tandem, as long as the progression towards getting certified is continuous. That being said what the hell is continuous? Well that is the problem we have to define every last word to determine what would work for everyone. How about a 90 day grace period to initiate the process. Then you must remain current.
What if you have a lay off? WTF I have no idea, someone else chime in.
As for you OZZY Work on your Pro rating it is less ambiguous...

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Canidates may earn the USPA Tandem Instructor rating
who have met all the following requirements:

A. Reached the age of 18 years
B. Holds or has held any USPA instructional rating
C. Earned a USPA D license or the FAI equivalent
D. Logged 500 jumps on a ram-air canopy
E. Three years in the sport (Those with five are already too smart to bother with this rating).
F-u. Willing to be the meat inside a death sandwich . . .

NickD :)

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The bigger question in my mind is not how quickly I can earn the coveted AFFI, but will I be a good mentor and quality AFFI? IMHO jump numbers and time in sport may add to that quality, but it is certainly not a guarantee. I first tried for my AFFI at around 600-700 jumps and 3-4 years in sport. I was not able to complete that course and I attempted again this summer with 7-8 years in with 1600+ jumps.( passed B|) Was I a better AFFI candidate the second go around? Oh by far! The additional jumps helped but so did more time in the sport. In those additional years not only did I accumulate more jump #s and ratings (IADI & TI) but the time in sport exposed me to more students and situations these students put themselves (and the AFFI) into. So my suggestion is to INVEST the time (1-2 additional years in your case) and you will not only be "qualified" but you most likely will be a better mentor and Instructor. If you feel you are ina hurry bear in mind I earned my AFFI when I was 53 years old -- if anyone had a reason to be in a hurry it could have been me. ;)

Good luck and remember, "Be a mentor!"

steveOrino

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Steve, that has to be one of the best posts I've seen in the instructors forum in a long time. Instead of bickering about technicalities, looking at the big picture in terms of instructing.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Thanks for your inspiring post. In the OP I was just wondering more in the wording then the rating. As I stated in the senero above it doesn't make scene the way it is.
As Para 505 stated I think it would be better on hours and jumps more then the time. Reason being It takes time to get those jumps and hours.
As you can see from my profile all but the time I meet the requirements. But a guy that does a tandem many years ago would have more time in the sport then me. That doesn't mean he is more qualified.

Another way to put it
Jumper A is in sport 30 years and has 1000 jumps
Jumper B is in sport 10 years and has 10000 jumps

Who is more qualified
I say B

I just would like some clarification on IN SPORT and the definition of it.
From the time you join USPA or the first Tandem

Thanks:)
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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"Three years" is whatever the examiner who signs your paperwork thinks is three years.



Yea im sure USPA would love to see that post!!!


It's stupid, but it's true. The definition is so vague that the examiner has incredibly broad discretion in deciding what to accept as "time in sport."

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Steve, that has to be one of the best posts I've seen in the instructors forum in a long time. Instead of bickering about technicalities, looking at the big picture in terms of instructing.



Thanks! That insight came from "MY" mentors, Lloyd, Spanky, Bigun, and Michael Wadkins.

steveOrino

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So the guy that does a tandem in 03 can go get his rating???? when that guy is the same guy you are talking about. ( doing 500 jumps in one year) That makes NO sense!!!!



Yes he can. I know several who got their rating 'earlier' than three continuous years in the sport since they were able to count that first tandem. When I got my rating all that was required to prove three years was a photo copy of your signed logbook from three years ago, it didn't matter if it was a tandem jump, AFF jump, or licensed jump.

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e. three years in the sport?????

I have several question and situations that I like to talk about:

1 When do you start counting the three years?
A.When you do your first Tandem
B. When you join USPA

PLEASE make some sense of this or give a reason behind it.
Thanks



The requirement originated with the tandem mfgs (RWS & SE) in the 80s sometime.
I do not think it was there from the very beginning (81).
It was added as a 'maturity metric' (for lack of a better description).

It is important to note:
"(USPA) Headquarters reported that the current tenure program is broken. Our
current system calculates tenure by simply taking the current date and subtracting the “start
date”. The system does not take into account lapses in the membership."
from http://uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Min_BOD_2008_09.pdf

This is the software package mentioned here:
"Authorize the Executive Director to spend up to $250,000 to purchase association software
package."
from http://uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Min_BOD_2003_01.pdf

How is 3 years tenure calculated in real life?
Probably from logbooks.

.
.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

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The three years in the sport requirement is an FAA requirement that was established when tandem was under the FAA exemption. The rule remained when tandem was adopted into Part 105 in 2001. http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section9/Part105/tabid/254/Default.aspx#10545



(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation using a tandem parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a tandem parachute system, unless--

(1) One of the parachutists using the tandem parachute system is the parachutist in command, and meets the following requirements:

(i) Has a minimum of 3 years of experience in parachuting, and must provide documentation that the parachutist--

(ii) Has completed a minimum of 500 freefall parachute jumps using a ram-air parachute, and

(iii) Holds a master parachute license issued by an organization recognized by the FAA, and

(iv) Has successfully completed a tandem instructor course given by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute system used in the parachute operation or a course acceptable to the Administrator.

(v) Has been certified by the appropriate parachute manufacturer or tandem course provider as being properly trained on the use of the specific tandem parachute system to be used.

Thanks Jim but the question is still there. When does your experience start? When you do your first tandem or when you join USPA and are current?

A person can meet the requirement with less experience because they did a tandem 8 years prior to really getting into the sport
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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"
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Candidates may earn the USPA Tandem Instructor rating
...

e. three years in the sport????? ..."

.......................................................................

3 years is a "maturity metric."

Think back to the good old days of 1983, before turbine engines, BOC, collapsible pilot chutes, ZP fabric, thin suspension lines, electronic AADs, compact video cameras, etc. it took three or more years to accumulate 500 jumps.
Most guys who had 500 jumps back then started on military surplus round parachutes and learned the hard way about hard pulls, spotting, walking back from bad spots, the finer points of folding Para-Commander stabilizers, watching friends go in, limping from bad landings, etc.

The first generation of TIs were drawn from National and World Champions.

These days, "3 years" counts from your first tandem jump.
Yes, the system is less than perfect, but trying to define "3 years" too narrowly, just opens a whole can of worms ...

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No TE is obligated to take any candidate. The three year rule is an absolute minimum that the TE can interpret as they will. If they decide to tell someone that they want more time in since the candidate became a 'regular' jumper I doubt they will get any flak from either the factory or USPA. Sure the candidate will bellow with outrage, but they will either still be there in another year or so, or they were a waste of time anyway.
I don't have a problem with the TE having a little discretion to increase certain minimums.

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Thank you.

I think this is one of the thing USPA should look at and reconstruct. They should keep up with the times!!!

With bigger aircraft things have changed. The old timers talk about how they would go to the DZ and be lucky to make A jump. Now someone with a enough energy could make 10 or more.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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