RSL on Tandems

[Rover 9]

A spin off from a thread in the incident forum re horseshoe malfunctions. Theres comment that the RSL needs to be disconnected before cutting away the main and activating the reserve in a horseshoe situation. That to me just adds another step during what can be a very stressful and fluid situation. I personally refuse to jump with an RSL connected for the complications that they can cause. I've got 2 hands and as a last resort an AAD to deal with any situations that arise. Are RSLs mandatory in the States? Any comments?

Well done on saving your arse Steve.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[steveorino 7]

I'm not a big fan of them. I don't have them on my personal rigs as I use to do a lot of camera jumps and I wanted the separation time.

I know they have a purpose, but personally I prefer no RSL.

steveOrino

[tonyhays 86]

I do not jump with an rsl on tandems. I pull more than high enogh to deal with both a cut away and have the time to make sure a we are in a stable belly to earth position to ensure a clean reserve deployment.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[deadwood 0]

On my presonal rig, I have it connected.
On my tandem rig I do not.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division

[johnny1488 1]

I think RSL's are a must on tandems. Where stability is an issue after a cutaway, rsl is the best option.

People are dead from not having an rsl on tandems.

Are people dead from having an rsl?

It solves way more problems than it causes, (on a tandem)

It also gives you a way to deploy the reserve on the right side (Im only ever jumped sigmas)

Keep your gear in check, and tell me a situation that your going to get a horseshoe with any regularity? Bad body position from potato chipping? Tandem masters fault. It's a game of numbers, you will have more cutaways and more problems from that from no rsl than you will have horseshoes.

I am not a fan of rsl's for anything beyond students, its personal preference then, but you are responsible for another human life on a tandem, and taking personal preference over safety in that sceniaro is irresponsible.

I speak only from my experience with sigmas, I have not nor will I jump other tandem rigs, so if they tell you to disconnect the rsl to solve another problem, thats retarded.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[marks2065 0]

yes people have died because of rsl's. a broken riser puts you in a bad situation. also on a spinning mal can cause line twists on the reserve. i have had 1 tandem chop on a strong rig with a rsl and didn't like how the reserve came out before i was ready. thankfully i had a good student. the reserve was out before i was belly to earth(still upright a little). because of problems with rsl's stong made it optional to have connected.

[Rover 9]

I still have the option to deploy my reserve with my right hand whether my RSL is connected or not. And yes people are dead from RSLs. A few years ago there was a tandem fatality in the US when the right risor snapped allowing the RSL to deploy the reserve, leading to a main / reserve entanglement. The 'answer' was another lanyard designed to release the left riser in this situation. Just another component to an already complicated system.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[skydivejeff 0]

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yes people have died because of rsl's. a broken riser puts you in a bad situation. also on a spinning mal can cause line twists on the reserve. i have had 1 tandem chop on a strong rig with a rsl and didn't like how the reserve came out before i was ready. thankfully i had a good student. the reserve was out before i was belly to earth(still upright a little). because of problems with rsl's stong made it optional to have connected.

Another reason to jump a Sigma. Also, the skyhook sytem is designed to shoot the reserve off your back without line twists, etc. Riser break is your own fault for not doing a proper gear check...I cant believe that a riser would snap without any visible signs of wear and tear on them that you could see on preflight.
Just my $.02
Jefe

[billbooth 10]

I was not a fan of RSL's either, until the Collins' Lanyard was invented. Broken risers do happen, and if it happens to be the riser that the RSL is connected to, you're in a "world of hurt". I do not know of any fatalities caused by an RSL with a Collins' Lanyard. I do know of several caused by RSL's without a Collins'.

[skybeergodd 0]

I completely agree....since the Collins lanyard, there really is no reason not to have the RSL.... I don't understand the horseshoe point at all....If you cut away without releasing the drouge you still have to dump the reserve past the trailing crap, so what difference does it make if the RSL does it for you...and even on the strong with a horseshoe and the instructor screwed up by not releasing the drouge first, then the cut away handle acts as a drouge release so all the crap leaves by the time a properly rigged RSL opens the reserve.......Since the Collins lanyard has been out there I only know of Tandem fatalities where the RSL would have saved the life, instead they are now statistics in the incident reports......And to the point of line twists ona reserve...Good god, if you can't deal with line twists then quit doing tandems.....Personally I've got 7 tandem chops in 1300+ tandems and only had line twists once and all had an RSL....
I'd be interested to know, of all who posted that do not like RSL's...what tandem system do you use.....My guess is Strong...Personally I'm Vector/Sigma and all have the Collins Lanyard.

[diablopilot 2]

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I do know of several caused by RSL's without a Collins'.

And probably 10 times as many no pulls following a breakaway, huh?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I was not a fan of RSL's either, until the Collins' Lanyard was invented. Broken risers do happen, and if it happens to be the riser that the RSL is connected to, you're in a "world of hurt". I do not know of any fatalities caused by an RSL with a Collins' Lanyard. I do know of several caused by RSL's without a Collins'.

Bill I am jumping a personal rig with an RSL and no Collin's lanyard. Are you saying you recommend I disconnect the RSL? Since it is a Vector I will certainly take your recommendation under advisement.

[spud 0]

Had 7 tandem cutaways, we have RSL`s on our rigs, I disconnect them on every jump. Definitely not a fan.

[feuergnom 22]

out of curiosity: how many cases of a broken riser on tandems are there really? afaik this happened only once after deploying not belly to earth. do i miss something?

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[tsalnukt 1]

The collins lanyard system is complicated?????? you should check it out.

skyhook and a collins lanyard. Can anyone think of how this set-up could not work to your advantage. Strong should up-date their gear.

[johnny1488 1]

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Just another component to an already complicated system.

Complicated? You're saying a sigma with a colloins lanyard is more complicated than a strong system? How does a Collins Laynyard effect or complicate the way you operate the rig?

Im not saying other systems dont work, but don't try to convince yourself they are better. Look at malfunction trees.

Like I said, I am not sold on the skyhook and sport rigs, I think it dumbs down jumpers and makes them take more risks. But on tandems where stability is always a concern, its awesome.

Tandem jumping is not just another skydive where you can bring in your personal preference. You need to do what is safest for the passenger. And if you think there is more risk from a quick reserve deployment than an unstable one, you should probably check your ego at the door.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[johnny1488 1]

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Had 7 tandem cutaways, we have RSL`s on our rigs, I disconnect them on every jump. Definitely not a fan.

So the unstable reserve deployment double fatality from a while back is an acceptable outcome, then?

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[donovan 0]

.....Personally I've got 7 tandem chops in 1300+ tandems and only had line twists once and all had an RSL....
***

Out of curiosity what were the seven malfunctions? 7 out of 1300 tandems seems a higher percentage than normal.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Like I said, I am not sold on the skyhook and sport rigs, I think it dumbs down jumpers and makes them take more risks. But on tandems where stability is always a concern, its awesome.

I really find this position baffling. Do you disagree with safety locks on firearms? helmets on football players? anti-lock brakes? All these things allow people to take more risks.

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Tandem jumping is not just another skydive where you can bring in your personal preference. You need to do what is safest for the passenger.

Why would you make a different decision for a personal jump? Deciding not to swoop a landing for a tandem but to do so for yourself is understandable; there is a payoff for your increased risk. However an RSL is about safety and nothing but safety. There is no payoff from any decision other than safety.

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And if you think there is more risk from a quick reserve deployment than an unstable one, you should probably check your ego at the door.

Your words pretty well re-enforce what I am trying to say.

[bclark 0]

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So the unstable reserve deployment double fatality from a while back is an acceptable outcome, then?

Are you talking about the Strong incident in Cross Keys a couple years ago? If so, I was thinking of the same incident. I think an RSL probably would have prevented this accident.

I know of ONE tandem incident where an RSL has caused a fatality. This was the broken riser incident, and the Collin's lanyard addresses this issue (on rigs which are equipped with a Collin's lanyard).

Can anyone remember any other incidents where an RSL resulted in a tandem accident?

I don't jump an RSL on my sport gear. But I like having it on a tandem.

[skybeergodd 0]

3 line overs I couldn't clear, 2 tension knots, 1 hung slider and 1 improperly rigged main......We had a packer for 2 seasons that just sucked. I wanted him fired after the 1st season but the DZO was too nice of a guy. There were slot more line overs and tension knots that I was able to clear. Our tandem staff got very good at clearing malfunctions and even better at emergency procedures.

[livendive 8]

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Can anyone remember any other incidents where an RSL resulted in a tandem accident?

I can think of one other RSL related fatality, coming up on 10 years ago. Student reached up and pulled the cutaway handle while the instructor was loosening the bottom straps. The RSL did its thing before the instructor had a chance to react. Lines came up between the tumbling instructor and student. The Instructor was killed and I think the student broke her leg (and sued, if I remember correctly).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[AndyBoyd 0]

I know there are sound arguments on both sides of this issue - this is just my two cents. I've never used an RSL on my sport rig. I always felt like I could control myself well enough after a cutaway to deploy my reserve with some stability. So far, I've been right. But when I was doing tandems, I used the RSL. My thinking was that after a cutaway, with a student potentially acting unpredictably, my best bet was to get a reserve out immediately. I had a nasty spinning cutaway on a tandem once where I believe the RSL saved my butt. The student was huge, we were spinning hard, and I'm not sure I could have controlled things after the cutaway. But the RSL deployed the reserve right away, and after kicking out of some line twists, we landed safely. So my personal view was that it was best for me to keep the RSL hooked up on tandems. But everyone has to make up their own minds on this issue. Just think about all the pros and cons carefully before you do.

[tsalnukt 1]

Is it or is it not a requirement to have the RSL hooked up on the vector/sigma rigs. I always thought that it was part o the TSO or something. I know Strong issued a service bulletin on it but as far as I know vector still requires it. Anyone out there know this to be fact or fiction?

I can see disconnecting it on a strong rig with no collins lanyard, but I don't see any benefit from not having it connected on a vector/sigma. Now with the skyhook on tandems it's even better. Who cares what you people do on your sport rigs. Tandems aren't sport jumps. They are tandem jumps. it's a whole diffrent animal and sometimes just 'cause you got "skill" doesn't always mean that you can overcome what the person on the front of you is going to do. If you think that you are better than the safety systems that are installed on the tandem system than maybe you should take a look at why these things are installed on a system and not necessarily take it upon your self to use it or not.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Are you talking about the Strong incident in Cross Keys a couple years ago? If so, I was thinking of the same incident. I think an RSL probably would have prevented this accident.

Standard RSL - possibly. Skyhook - very probably.