Has your AFF/TI work taken the fun out of it?

[bigbearfng 9]

I am definately going to take the coach course next since getting my d license. If I have someone that wants to learn something then I really do enjoy teaching.
I've already been encouraged to go for TI rating too, and I'm seriously considering AFF and TI. This would not be the job that pays the bills.
My concern is that making it into a job would change skydiving for me. This sport is my therapy and I love it and respect all the teachers and mentors of mine and would like to give back to the sport.
However I remember how things changed for me with skiing back when I started working ski patrol; I used to ski all day, enter every race but after it became "work" I spent less and less time skiing for fun and enjoying it.
It really makes my day when jumping with a new A lic. to see the look in their eye as they turn points and get it, so is this the part of it keeping it "good" for you?
Do you have any regrets for becoming a TI? Regrets as an AFFI?
So I'd really appreciate input from instructors on your take on this. Thank you.

[marks2065 0]

getting caught up in the DZ politics and getting pressured by the DZO to jump whenever he needs you to make money for him is what causes the change. as long as you can keep out of these issues you will do fine. good luck not many instructers can avoid these issues.

seeing a students eyes light up after a jump and hearing them talk the rest of the day about what you just did for them is priceless.

[jasonRose 0]

I can relate to the questions you are asking, in fact I asked similar ones not to long ago. I can’t speak for every one but I can share my rational for what I have done thus far and I don’t regret it.

Coaching,
If you like teaching or find yourself doing it anyways, take the coach course!!! You will learn a ton about your own skills and how you should approach a brand new student. I have found coaching to be very rewarding by watching students excel. Be good a good coach and continue to evolve, don’t rely on the class by itself talk to other instructors and start filling your toolbox with styles that you can convert to your own. The deal I made myself is if coaching students failed to be fun or feel like a chore I would give it up. If you end up liking coaching go for the next rating.

For me it was.

Tandems,
As a brand new TI I can tell you this, tandems kick ass! Being a TI is very dynamic, no one student is the same and you will learn a ton about yourself and your limits as well as having a front row seat for someone experiencing skydiving for the first time. Similar to coaching I made a deal with myself, if I stop having fun or the job starts feeling like a job then I will quit. A tandem passenger is totally dependent on you and you must be prepared to take the huge responsibility that entails. Additionally you want your passenger to have a great experience with their new adventure. If you are a burnt out stick in mud and are just trying to make some cash then I would question your ability to give the passenger the experience they deserve. I have zero regret of becoming a TI and I absolutely love it!!

Good luck on your endeavors!!! Work hard and it will pay off.

Rosie

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[peregrinerose 0]

Depends on the DZ. Some DZOs can beat the bloody fun out of skydiving if you're on staff. Burnout can happen FAST in that situation. A good DZO/DZ vibe can make all the difference.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[popsjumper 2]

Fortunately, I am in a position that doesn't depend on AFFI income. I can take it or leave it. DZ politics and DZO slave-driving does not affect me because I can always elect to not do AFF at all if it becomes a burden to my sanity.

Don't get me wrong...I jump and help out whenever and wherever possible but I will not let the "job" overtake my "fun". Fortunately, I have a great DZO that understands and does not hold that against me.

If I ever run into a DZO with the "do it or else" attitude, he will quickly discover my choice in the matter as he gets a good view of my ass as I leave.

It gets to be a burden only if YOU let it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andrewwhyte 1]

My advice is to take the coach course and not the other two. Spend a year as a coach and decide whether you will get out of the other ratings enough to make it worth the price of the added pressure on your rec time. As others have said, this depends a lot on your DZ and DZO.

[skydivejeff 0]

Remember that for most, jumping out of an airplane is the pinnacle of one's life...Saying that, nothing compare's to the look on a students face ( whether it be tandem, aff, iad, or s/l) after they have landed! I recommend going for it if you are one to give back and share the knowledge that you have gained! Teaching has not burned me out nor has it taken any fun out of the sport; it has only made me a better skydiver. Good luck with whatever you choose!

[Gary73 8]

If I had to choose just one kind of skydive to do for the rest of my life it would be AFF. Nothing else is as much fun for me or as beneficial to the sport.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[freeflysteve 0]

Couldnt agree more.
I am an FS coach and just love it,also do camera for tandems and that gets to be hard work but very satisfying.
AFF instructor not for me at least not in the foreseeable future.

Swooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting!

[azureriders 0]

My experience:

RW video = Hard work and boring
Tandem video = Hard work and very rewarding
Coaching = Very fun, very rewarding
AFF = Fun, rewarding both from the teaching and flying aspects.

I really enjoy my AFF work as it tends to focus on both my ablity to teach as well as fly well and react quick. These are all skills that I am proud of, but the truth is that the ablity to teach is by far the one that enjoy most. For that reason a post AFF, pre A licsense coach jump is my favorite jump to make, bar none, all work and fun jumps included.

I do not depend on, nor use, my DZ income to pay bills, however I do work there. Work jumps come first, and video / AFF come before coach jumps. I am there from open to close and most of my jumps are work, however I still spend my whole week looking forward to the weekend.

Hope that helps, but I must also point out that I have not been in the sport long enough to "burn out" yet and I am also one of those sick few who enjoy work, so maybe I was not so much help after all.

[rhys 0]

Quote

However I remember how things changed for me with skiing back when I started working ski patrol; I used to ski all day, enter every race but after it became "work" I spent less and less time skiing for fun and enjoying it.

Ypu know i had the same thing, i was a snowboarder for 7 years and decided I needed a career, i took my avalanche stage 1 course and my instructors course, it sapped the fun out of it and i lost my passion. i found that all the most fun things i enjoyed were putting me in danger, like launching off a huge cornice into the phat pillow below with all my mates in tow.... but that is another story.

After I decided not to go down that road, i signed up for the commercial skydiving diploma in New Zealand, skydiving was to become my bread and butter, i only had a couple of grand for gear when i started and fortunately for me the NZ govornment subsidises the cpourse by 50% for NZ citizens and i could student loan the rest.

the first year or two it seemed like a struggle getting camera gear and more modern equipment etc. but really is was a bunch of fun, once i got my tandem rating everything became easy, i started travelling, and i was earning very good money.

These days i am doing more sport skydiving than ever before, i am competeing with my fiance at the world meet and our combined icome form skydibing is around $100,000 per year.

grumpy tandem masters piss me off, we are constantly reminded by our customers on a daily basis that we have the best job in the world.

And we do!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[steveorino 7]

I think it depends on you. If you want to do RW, freefly and being an Instructor helps pay for that then, maybe it will drain the fun out as you see your peers do those jumps w/o you while you have a student strapped to your chest or spend hours teaching AFF.

However, if you are like me, and rather jump with a newbie, especially a first timer, than turn 10 points, you may find being a TI or AFFI very rewarding. I know I do. To me personally there is nothing like being there for the reaction of someone's first jump. Mentors, like Michael Wadkins of xcelskydiving.com have helped me enjoy teaching as well

steveOrino

[daneaton 0]

I enjoy doing Tandems as well as AFF .but you can get burned out..

[baronn 111]

Maybe it's just me, but has anyone ever had a DZO complain about not having enuff help and too much work and when you show up to get something done, find out that isn't even close to the case? His staff resists the new guy(especially if they are ambitious and want to jump a lot) and all the promises that were made to get you there, suddenly are forgotten when you show up. Instead, you discover that there isn't nearly as much work to do as was said and you are going to be @ the bottom of the pecking order is spite of the promise of fair rotation. I don't understand how These people expect someone to be dedicated to their organization and yet turn around make it not even worth the time to be out there. I've had this happen more than once and just curious how(if) others have dealt with this.

[billvon 2,380]

>I don't understand how These people expect someone to be dedicated
>to their organization and yet turn around make it not even worth the time
>to be out there.

Because they don't control how many students show up - and most places will give priority to their most dedicated and hardworking instructors.

If you want to teach, then show up, hang out and when the really heavy weekend comes along they'll use you - and you'll start moving up the food chain. If you just want to make money, pack.

[billvon 2,380]

>My concern is that making it into a job would change skydiving for me.

It almost did for me. It got to the point where I was at the DZ three days a week doing tandem and AFF, and it was starting to feel like a job.

Nowadays on a long weekend I'll spend a day teaching the FJC, a day doing video for a 4-way team, a day coaching the newbies, and a day just fun jumping. Doesn't feel like a job that way.

[AndyBoyd 0]

There was a time in my life when skydiving paid the bills, or most of them, anyway. And I did get burned out on tandems, and yes, the sport was not as much fun as it was previously. So I went out and got a real job, and I now just skydive on the weekends, mostly as a LO, with the occasional AFF jump. For me, skydiving needs to be my release from the day to day stress of life, not the source of it. But, at the DZ I jump at, the full-time instructors are always seem to be having a good time and enjoying their jumps. So I guess it depends on the individual. Being a professional skydiver was not for me. Others seem to love it. If you just want to chuck a few drogues on the weekend, or do a few AFFs, I doubt you will get burned out.

[baronn 111]

Not sure I made my position clear. First one @ the DZ(6am) Clean the place up(I don't really like to drink but, I pickup all the empties)Get the gear ready for the day and help get students signed up and in the air. Gear other instructors students. I asked for priority as far as work goes, but I was willing to work for it. Instead, The DZ brings on a bunch of part time people that don't do any extra for the place and I find myself missing loads while they take students up. He didn't even fill the plane with instructors. It seems to me, having qualified, hardworking dependable staff would be a plus. Instead, the more is better and let's keep everyone at each other's throat mentality, seems to be more prevalent. I've seen this more than once and only a few places seem to have the quality over quantity attitude. Perhaps, I'm the only that has experienced this. Just curious if anyone else has.

[diablopilot 2]

Yes, and I quit working there pretty quickly after I started.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[NSEMN8R 0]

Quote

Not sure I made my position clear. First one @ the DZ(6am) Clean the place up(I don't really like to drink but, I pickup all the empties)Get the gear ready for the day and help get students signed up and in the air. Gear other instructors students. I asked for priority as far as work goes, but I was willing to work for it. Instead, The DZ brings on a bunch of part time people that don't do any extra for the place and I find myself missing loads while they take students up. He didn't even fill the plane with instructors. It seems to me, having qualified, hardworking dependable staff would be a plus. Instead, the more is better and let's keep everyone at each other's throat mentality, seems to be more prevalent. I've seen this more than once and only a few places seem to have the quality over quantity attitude. Perhaps, I'm the only that has experienced this. Just curious if anyone else has.

It seems to me that it would make sense for dz management to spread whatever work is available around evenly and include the part timers in the fair rotation if they want to keep part time help around.

I worked for a little while at a dz that gave priority to their full time guy. When I got tired of watching him get on every load while the rest us part timers split up his left overs, I quit and went to a dz where I could get a fair share of the work when I wanted it.

edit to add:
To answer the original question, yes work jumps take some of the fun out of regular dz weekends, but it's those work jumps that pay for the trips I get to go on where I do get to have fun. To me it's worth it.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

Quote

Not sure I made my position clear. First one @ the DZ(6am) Clean the place up(I don't really like to drink but, I pickup all the empties)Get the gear ready for the day and help get students signed up and in the air. Gear other instructors students. I asked for priority as far as work goes, but I was willing to work for it. Instead, The DZ brings on a bunch of part time people that don't do any extra for the place and I find myself missing loads while they take students up. He didn't even fill the plane with instructors. It seems to me, having qualified, hardworking dependable staff would be a plus. Instead, the more is better and let's keep everyone at each other's throat mentality, seems to be more prevalent. I've seen this more than once and only a few places seem to have the quality over quantity attitude. Perhaps, I'm the only that has experienced this. Just curious if anyone else has.

It seems to me that it would make sense for dz management to spread whatever work is available around evenly and include the part timers in the fair rotation if they want to keep part time help around.

I worked for a little while at a dz that gave priority to their full time guy. When I got tired of watching him get on every load while the rest us part timers split up his left overs, I quit and went to a dz where I could get a fair share of the work when I wanted it.

If the part timers can't get any work some of them will leave until the right size staff is the result. If the full timers can't earn enough to live they will leave and replacing them will be tough. It is a small world out there and news about where the work is, and isn't, generally spreads. I constantly get emails from potential TMs for places I used to work asking me what they can expect.
Our DZ just went from 2 to 7 TMs. If my workload falls to 29% of what it was last week, I will not be able to pay my bills and they will not have a full timer next year. Remember the part timers are the ones who go to the boogie on the coast or go compete at nationals, the full timer is the guy who stays home and works.

[PhreeZone 14]

The DZ also needs to remember that the Part timers that are part of their fun jumper base will be there year to year if they live near by where the full timers might pull out at any time and head for greener pastures at another DZ. If they dont keep the part timers happy to a point then when the DZ gets slammed with a student day that is a more then the full timers can handle then they might not have any part timers still current or that have renewed their ratings if they were never getting any work. Its a complicated balence to keep everyone happy. Ideally the DZ should be able to have full timers that are locals and shouldn't need to pull in seasonal help that is subject to leaving at the drop of a dime but that is rarely the case anymore.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[baronn 111]

No doubt, a tough balance act. I can understand having all the TM's you can get on the DZ. After all, it's not like we're on a clock or anything. Making sure your work is covered would only be a prudent business decision. And I'm all about running a good business. If the place doesn't make it, none of us will have a place to jump. However, I have witnessed a DZ owner, that was so disorganized, he would require 9 TI's,aCaravan,2 182's,9 rigs and 4packers to get 60 tandems done. I have also witnessed 1 182,2 TI's,4 rigs and one afternoon to do 48 students. The point here is, get your poop in a group, keep your key people busy and make it work for everyone involved. This "I'll have an army and keep them @ each other's throat's for the work" only builds animosity and resentment. Nobody will be happy or want to be part of that seen. The better run places don't operate that way and they don't have problems keeping good help.
My next objective is to be part of those operations.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

I have also witnessed 1 182,2 TI's,4 rigs and one afternoon to do 48 students.

24 loads in the afternoon. Wow that's one heckuva 182.

[NSEMN8R 0]

I just started working at a new dz. This place is the most efficient, well run operation I have ever seen. It's got a great vibe and everyone seems happy. And they have a FAIR rotation. 8 TMs working in 2 groups. 4 TMs on each load so everyone is pretty much on every other load all weekend long until we're all done. I love it.

I agree that it's important to keep the full time guys happy, but I think the surest way to put people at each other's throats is to show preference to one or two of your people at the expense of the rest of them.
When a DZ plays favorites, the only one's that end up happy are the few who are making all the money. The rest of the people seem to end up with the animosity and resentment you mentioned. Those that don't want to be a part of all the bitching and drama will just quietly move on to another DZ. Then look what you're left with... That kind of stuff can really fuck up the vibe at a place.