Head-down and Sit-fly tandems (videos)

[marks2065 0]

i don't understand the lack of responsibility some instructors show. this HD tandem is a very dangerous jump ! when an instructor starts to take chances to amuse themselves it is time to take a break from students. My personal experience is that the droug pouches and velcro are usually worn badly from to many jumps and bad packers to trust at that speed and anlge. This TI needs some time to rethink weather she really should be doing tandems.

[sdctlc 0]

Call me what you like but having fun on tandems by going HD or doing a sit really should not be tolerated. I might be "old fashioned" but I have always looked at tandems, at least when I do them, as being something of a, well , A JOB! I get jazzed up when I can hear the pax scream and jump and hoot and holler on the ground after a great time getting from point A to Point B safely. I take MY fun jumps when I am not doing the tandems. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy doing a tandem and do get a good bit of satisfaction out of it. That said more often then not when I see someone doing something maybe a step too far, it is a TI that is doing LOTS of tandems and they are looking to add some "spice" to the jump while completely forgetting that the pax most likely has no idea.. Given that, why add the extra risk???? Your basically taking away from the jump THEY PAID FOR, solely for your own personal enjoyment and you should go do that on a non-working jump..

Oh well, I guess I am a tandem Prude..

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[des 2]

i guess i am a conservative tm.i was in hawaii in the mid 90's,did some fun jumps ,and a tandem on th front of arvil for his rating. they said "hey, come look at thes vids".they were headdown tandems, and i gotta admit i was impressed with the control and ability of the tm's. i have still never done it myself, but with the right tm , and the student who asks for extreme,(and there are lots of them),i reckon."why not",i really dont see a problem, if the instructor has the ability, and these guys have it.

[JohnDeere 0]

First of all you should read the forum rules, i dont have to be an instructor to read or post here, but thanks for your concern. I know alot about side spins, including how to get in them and out of them both solo and tandem. Have you ever watched the side spin video???? If so then you might be lacking commen sence (on why not to do them), side spins are very dangerous. Even if student says he wants an EXTEME jump a good TM would never give it to him, becuase the student dose not understand the facts/danger of what he is requesting. Tandem rigs are not made FF. Or have i missed something?

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

someone needs to lighten up. Are you an instructor? have you ever done a tandem? If not go to another forum. Did it end up in a side spin?....NO! What do you really know about side spins? Ever been in one? How many tandem fatalities happen in this country every year from freefall stability problems? Exactly!!! I hate to inform you, but it wasnt as dangerous as you are acting like it is.
I've never done a head down tandem. But i'm sure the instructors that have, dont make a habit of it. I doubt the increased risk of a competent flyer that does an occasional head down tandem is even measureable. probably like %.00001

You're either joking or an idiot.

[JohnDeere 0]

Oh come on no responce???? Did you sober up????

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[alexispainchaud 0]

Ok, I'm at work, I have not seen the vids(firewall...) but I think I know people in one of them.

I absolutely agree with the fact that freeflying a tandem involving a student absolutely sucks! For reasons mentioned earlier, added risk, video sucks, customer can't know what he asks for when he says "extreme".

BUT!

What about experimenting with experienced skydivers. I know some of you may say that at that point, it becomes our damn problem, but let's get technical...

I confess, someone I know tried it with a SIGMA rig, with a well briefed experienced jumper. Did HD from 14000 to 11000. Back on the belly, decelerated until 9500, poped the drogue, normal opening at 6000.

Was actually a lot of fun! Wouldn't feel the need to repeat the experience thought, but TI was an experienced FF, and all went well.

So, responsibility-wise, let's keep students outta those experimenting jumps, but otherwise, with an as up-to-date equipment as possible, is it that bad?

I personally don't don't think so. I am a TI, and a Freeflyer and just like any other unusual thing you try in the sky, with good planing, it can actually be pretty fun!

All work
And no skydive
Makes Alexis
A dull boy

[DougH 270]

Let me ask you this, is it dz gear, or their own personal gear that they are tearing up.

Drouges aren't free!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[alexispainchaud 0]

Quote

Let me ask you this, is it dz gear, or their own personal gear that they are tearing up.

Drouges aren't free!

Good point, DZ gear, but DZO was aware of the experiment to be.

All work
And no skydive
Makes Alexis
A dull boy

[chris74 0]

Just for fun :
My Galaxy 350 ( reserve canopy ) has officially a 85 m/s Use maximum speed .Does a tandem drogueless and Head down exceed this limit ? My 2 cents : just a little bit No need to imagine the story in case of premature reserve canopy opening or drogue's bridle failure
Blue skies
Chris

[JohnDeere 0]

I could care less what 2 expierenced jumpers do. That is for them (and gear owner) to decide. We all understand what we are doing and the risk involved. I still have not got a reply from Yarak or who ever was being ignorant tords me.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[captainhook_666 0]

Whatever you think, i like that video. And the music is cool on the 2nd one. Remember what original people says when the first jump in history was done.

For reference with feedback, see my ebay profile: captainhook_666

[alexispainchaud 0]

Quote

Ok, I'm at work, I have not seen the vids(firewall...) but I think I know people in one of them.

Ok, now I have seen the videos. Even though I know the people in the sitfly one, and think the second one looks kinda cool, it still is pretty stupid to do it with student....

Did I say pretty stupid? I think I'm being soft because I know them

Can't say I hate the music though.

All work
And no skydive
Makes Alexis
A dull boy

[kefran 0]

just one question : (no Alexis, you can't answer this one !) does anyone here actually know the 2 instructors involved in the sit-flying tandem and their skydiving background before calling them with names like "vidiots" and so on ???

just curiosity ....

and no i don't agree with what they did ...

--------------------------------------------------
I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution !

[quebec_dude 0]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here but since I'm the passenger on the first video and some people seems to freak out about it, I felt I had to clarify a bit.

At that moment I had 30 jumps under my belly and I was already CoP A. I paid a tandem jump to my father (who jump right before me) because he's the one who gave me my first tandem jump at my 24 th birthday and I though it would be great to jump with him and do a tandem about one year after my first jump. Although I know I wasn't an expert of freefly or anything at that stage, I had a bit of experience in 2-way and sitfly and I though that a "normal jump" would have been cool, but a "different" jump could be great !

I talked about it with both the tandem master and the cameraman (who I both know quite well because I did some of my training with them) and we decide altogether to do a 3-way sitfly. We reviewed each step of the jump together (from exit to separation and opening) and went for it. I'm absolutely sure they would NEVER try such a jump with a first timer and they knew at that time where I was in my progression and took it into consideration.

I strongly disagree with everybody who call him a "vidiot" without knowing anything about the people in the video. Since I understand some peeps don't like to see things they consider risky happens, I think a bit of moderation and thinking would be welcome. I would never approve anything dangerous and personally, I still consider myself as a very conservative skydiver. But that one was as prepared as it can be and I felt totally safe with these two birds with me.

At last, skydiving will always be a matter of ratio fun/danger for me, and I think communication with higher experience jumpers is the key to reduce to the max those dangers. It's great to see that so many people are willing to give advices to avoid tricky situations and potentially deadly manoeuvres, but let's face it, without anyone pushing the limits now and then, the sport would still be the same as it was 40 years ago.

I hope my second post won't bring up such a polemic.

DaN

ps: I'm sorry if my english sucks ... but I don't really care :)

[bclark 0]

Quote

But that one was as prepared as it can be and I felt totally safe with these two birds with me.

How about the part where the camera flyer loses his shoe, loses sight of the tandem pair while fucking with said shoe, then ends up directly above you as the drogue is deployed?

No matter who the people are, or how much respect you have for them, that was pretty stupid.

[alexispainchaud 0]

Quote

How about the part where the camera flyer loses his shoe, loses sight of the tandem pair while fucking with said shoe, then ends up directly above you as the drogue is deployed?

No matter who the people are, or how much respect you have for them, that was pretty stupid.

Let's just call it a clumsy cameraman sequence, but we now are far away from watching a tandem involving a student going in freefly.

And the "vidiot" was pretty high above the tandem, way above the drogue. Still not a good place to be, but out of drogue range. This whole video takes a different turn when we know a little more about the participants.

All work
And no skydive
Makes Alexis
A dull boy

[stratostar 5]

Quote

And the "vidiot" was pretty high above the tandem, way above the drogue. Still not a good place to be, but out of drogue range. This whole video takes a different turn when we know a little more about the participants.

Oh well......fucking A, that makes it a whole lot better! Not like any camera flyers have killed a TM or anything bad like that before.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[alexispainchaud 0]

I get it, I get it.... Just sayin there is a difference between an accidental bad move, that in the end, did not kill anybody and a really stupid idea involving a tandem with a student in freefly.

I just think we got so cranked up that now even the shoe/above drogue thing is blown out of proportion.

Might just be me that is careless...

All work
And no skydive
Makes Alexis
A dull boy

[stratostar 5]

Quote

blown out of proportion.

I don;t think so, if you strap a cameras to your head and get paid or slots for tandem jumps then there is NEVER a reason to be above them!

If you do and then post the video or some one else post your shitty work on the world wide web, plan on getting your work picked over and or bashed on.

They call it the "no fly zone" for a reason.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[JohnDeere 0]

Well at least the music was cool while they where indangering other peoples lifes. And who cares what people think about the pioneers of this sport, becuase they where only indangering there lifes, not other peoples.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[JohnDeere 0]

Quote

just one question : (no Alexis, you can't answer this one !) does anyone here actually know the 2 instructors involved in the sit-flying tandem and their skydiving background before calling them with names like "vidiots" and so on ???

just curiosity ....

and no i don't agree with what they did ...

No i dont know them or care to, but what i do know is that the rigs they where using was not made to free fly with.... oh and they are reckless fools.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[JohnDeere 0]

Ok so let me get this straight you had 30 jumps, and you had a bit of experience with 2-way and sit fly. O.K. so how much tunnel did you have???? Cause it takes 25 jumps to get an A lic. so you ether had alot of tunnel or no experience worth even talking about. Also Did you know at that time that rig was not made to FF in??????

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[duroejc 0]

So are these tamdem instructors jumping at USPA dropzones with tamdem manufacturers ratings? Having recieved the rating it is explicitly clear at several points in the training that the TI understands and agrees to follow the manufacturers recommendations as a condition of that rating. It really bothers me when people nod their head and sign the documents then do what ever they please- knowing full well it violates the manufacturers recommendations or BSRs etc... The only thing I hope is that they don't kill an innocent first time jumper- only themselves or 30 jump "experiened" friends.

[PhreeZone 14]

Here is verbage that the USPA and the tandem manufactors have agreed to and made part of the SIM.

d. Tandem training jumps [E]
(1) Any USPA member conducting a tandem jump must hold a current USPA Tandem Instructor
rating and a manufacturer’s type rating. (Effective with the printing of the 2009 SIM, which is
expected in October 2008).
(2) For progressive training requirements following tandem jumps, refer to "Crossover training.
(3) Intentional back-to-earth or vertical orientations that cause tandem freefall speeds exceeding
that of drogue fall are prohibited.”

Note that #3 now offers the USPA and tandem manufactors an option to pull the instructors rating or manufactor endorsement if they violate the rules by doing Head down, sitfly, Atmo or any other tandem that increases their speed past that of drogue fall speeds.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com