Aloof, unfriendly TM's

[freefli 2]

John,

I had the same experience as you are talking about. Mine was at Mile High Skydiving in Longmont Colorado. For me, it was the main place to do a tandem in the state. The DZ was owned by the late Jeff Sands but I happened to do my tandem with the current DZO, Frank Casares, who was about as entertaining as watching a bowl of goldfish. He didn't say shit the whole time. I started conversation under canpy, asking if pulling down the strings pulled the back of the parachute, making it turn. He said "Yea". End of conversation. He was a tandem robot. His claim to fame was doing 18 tandems in one day.

It's sad to see people lose interest in the sport and look at it as purely a form of income. He is a prime example of that now, more than ever.

Luckily for me, I knew I wanted to go further in the sport, so I had already signed up for my FJC before my tandem. If I hadn't, I might have thrown in the towel after his drooling experience.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Frank? was a TM? Wow...that's hard for me to visualize that level of participation in the sportThat must have been before my time Yeah, I'd agree...he's antisocial and lacking in personality and customer service. But there is hope..and TIME...he CAN work on being more of a "people person"...that is if he wants to work on it...if he does, GREAT! If not, awwww...bless his heart Jumpers DO have options

_________________________________________

[dnhump 1]

man-oh-man, I don't write very well, but I was trying to say that I agree with you. 'EVERYBODY ELSE' was refering to the people who don't get it. We all want this sport to thrive, right? There's no place for stupid bullshit!

[JohnMitchell 14]

Oh, gotcha. I think most of us love the peeps we meet in this sport, and wish everyone's first experience could be what it should be, great.

[psychoswooper 2]

Saw the same thing at a CA DZ. TM rode up in the co-pilot seat of the Otter. Nobody near the student talked to her including the videographer until just before hook up
Funny thing is my friends who jump there regularly said that this TM is always bitching about how he never gets tips...duh.

[linestretch 0]

Wow, how this brings me back. My first experience w/ this was seeing a TI at YOUR DZ doing exactly what you said. Though not in the co-pilot seat....the TI was seated behind the student (caravan) and talked (very loud) to the experienced jumper sitting next to them. I watched the whole deal and thought to myself "is this how you end up treating students when you've been brought up in this environment?".

Sorry, not trying to bash your DZ....it just something that has always stuck w/ me and then to see you post on this subject. PM me if you want more info.

my pics & stuff!

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Why do some tandem masters try so hard to be aloof and arrogant towards their passengers?

1. DZO is motivated by money #1
2. The TM pool is kept large and easily replaced (rarely does someone fail the TM course)
3. DZO’s do not rely on return business from tandems
4. Tandems have no way of assessing how good a DZ or TM Instructor is prior to jumping and even then, they cannot properly evaluate the performance of either


Trickle down effect from the DZO. DZO treats TM's like crap, and pays them as little as possible. The DZO doesn't care if it is a good TM or a poor one, he make the same money either way. If anything the poor TM is better since they don't ask for more money or benefits because they are doing a really good job. Keep the TM pool large and easily replaced and you don't have to treat or pay them well. Of course, you get what you pay for. But again, the DZO doesn’t care, it doesn’t affect his bottom line. The TM is unhappy and not motivated to do anything over making the jump and getting the $. Why would the TM put any more effort into it? They have to work hard, all day long to try and make a living. They don’t get benefits, raises, etc. Eventually they get tired of going no where and quit. By then there is a long line of people willing to replace them for a chance to get paid to skydive and the cycle repeats itself. The DZO treats the students like dirt, so the TM does as well. It is just a paycheck to everyone. This is key: they don't rely on return business, so why treat them well? A restaurant has to have good food, good service, and a clean facility or they will go out of business because the place next door will get all the return business. A restaurant could have much higher profit margins if they didn't care about return business. Pay their staff less, buy cheaper ingredients, allow the building to like crap, etc. They would make more money per meal served, but wouldn’t have any return business. Besides, how often does a tandem passenger NOT think they had the best Instructor in the world; after all they jumped and landed safely?

There is no mechanism for change, nor is there any real motivation to implement any change to the current system.

Derek V

[JohnMitchell 14]

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There is no mechanism for change, nor is there any real motivation to implement any change to the current system.

Mmmmm, tips?

Seriously, a calm, happy student is always better to work with than a nervous, scared one, so that's one small benefit.

I did make some good tips this weekend.
The points you bring up are very valid. I think that pattern may be at work at a lot of places.

[Forsaken 0]

Last week, I had a new tandem student recognize and request me, based on a video on YouTube. That was a first for me...and the request had nothing to do with my skill (or lack thereof, lest you think that was ego based) as a tandem instuctor. The student said I looked like I was having more fun than my passenger. Personally I think if I'm not having fun, how can my passenger? It's an easy thing to do and I think John's right...if you can't muster up a personality, maybe you need to evaluate why you started the sport in the first place.

[vskydiver 0]

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Last week, I had a new tandem student recognize and request me, based on a video on YouTube.

You forgot to include the You Tube clicky! I want to see it!

[DSE 3]

I wonder if there is any relationship to how you are with students, how John is with students, and that you both had the same instructor a few decades apart?
IMO, you're one of those tandem instructors that gives the student good information and a great experience, every time. It's always fun to jump w/you.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I have worked at dropzones where there where TM's that could not possibly ever become "instructors" who could produce proof that they had over 500 jumps and 3 years in the sport, yet they became, after some time, reputable TM's. Lord knows who gave them that rating. Some of those guys were, and still are, exactly like the people you guys are talking about.

If you are a prick, then you don't need to be hauling meat. If you are a prick who does not get ALL of your ratings the second you get a full-time job at a real turbine dropzone, then you ought not get pissed off when your sorry ass gets replaced by a REAL skydiving instructor who will get every rating, and do whatever it takes to make a TRUE living skydiving.,

If you are "over" doing tandems, or "over" doing AFF, and only want to do video, then you can fuck yourself. No, you have not "earned" the right to swoop your velo or xaos on every jumps, particularly when the guy who IS doing the tandem is a PST professional... You laugh when your brothers and sisters continue to do the heavy work. Our's is a TINY commuinity. You are not going to get over on like-qualified individuals for too long before you are called out for your laziness. Man up, perform all the tasks which you are qualified for and which your body will allow you to do, and do not, under any circumstances, think that you deserve to fly your swoop canopy every single skydive; particuarly when all of your Tandem bitches can out-swoop you.

Personally, I fucking LOVE doing tandems (with my own rig) and LOVE doing AFF (with my own rig) and I can't imagine for the life of me why a professional skydiver would not take advantage of every single opportunity to perform is job to the fullest extent.

Chuck
D-12501, AFF/TM/SL-I, PRO, S&TA, BMCI-4

[Mixoligist 0]

Amen

..................................
Better you than me
..................................

[skydvrblonde 0]

This all reminds me, John... any chance I can get you to do tandems at Lost Prairie during the boogie this year? I promise you'll see Valinda's handy-work (clear jumpsuit) in action ;)

hehe

Once you visit Skydive Lost Prairie
Your heart will never leave.

Boogie with us... www.skydivelostprairie.com

[riddler 0]

It's a sign of poor DZ management, IMO.

There really are instructors in the world that do it just for the money. Don't like their jobs, don't have marketable skills other than jumping, don't even really like people.

There really are DZOs that would rather have unfriendly instructors that rush students on the plane than instructors that take the time to make sure the student and gear are OK and having a good time.

There are instructors that use too much drugs and alcohol. Maybe it makes them feel good that night, but the next working day they are tired and irritable. It definitely makes them a liability.

I've seen all the above. And it's not like I hang around the DZ all week - I'm just a weekend jumper at the best of times. This is a common theme, but not uncommon circumstances.

The solution is that the DZO needs to be accountable and on top of it. There are a lot of people in the world, and the DZO needs to make sure the instructors are doing a good job as well as marketing the dropzone.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[BMFin 0]

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What about a TI who's a bit to friendly during free fall and his hands aren't where they are supposed to be?
.

LOL

I was thinkin of this thread right after I shot the photo attached.

When exiting from the frontstep I sometimes take harness grips or sometimes push the tandem a little with my hand..
This time the photo looks like Im grabbing her tit.

I did however show her the photo afterwords and sort of apologized and explained it was not my intention..


(edited to add the attachement)

[skydiverton2 0]

Quote

Quote

What about a TI who's a bit to friendly during free fall and his hands aren't where they are supposed to be?
.

LOL

I was thinkin of this thread right after I shot the photo attached.

When exiting from the frontstep I sometimes take harness grips or sometimes push the tandem a little with my hand..
This time the photo looks like Im grabbing her tit.

I did however show her the photo afterwords and sort of apologized and explained it was not my intention..


(edited to add the attachement)

Yes right........

As a videoman you must be quite happy with the dark passenger google I think

Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid.
.
.
Also in case you jump a sport rig!!!

[BMFin 0]

Quote

Yes right........

As a videoman you must be quite happy with the dark passenger google I think

Im not sure what you mean by this ? Why would I be happy ?

The thing that Im most happy about is when the customer has decent goggles that arent all over his/her face.

[skydiverton2 0]

Quote

Quote

Yes right........

As a videoman you must be quite happy with the dark passenger google I think

Im not sure what you mean by this ? Why would I be happy ?

The thing that Im most happy about is when the customer has decent goggles that arent all over his/her face.

Best expression on the passenger/student face is caught with clear goggles without a coloured binding (flexvision for example). With this simple measure you get a better image of the paggengers face. Eyes are visible, no coloured lines. (off topic)

Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid.
.
.
Also in case you jump a sport rig!!!

[skydivejeff 0]

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If you are "over" doing tandems, or "over" doing AFF, and only want to do video, then you can fuck yourself. No, you have not "earned" the right to swoop your velo or xaos on every jumps.
Personally, I fucking LOVE doing tandems (with my own rig) and LOVE doing AFF (with my own rig) and I can't imagine for the life of me why a professional skydiver would not take advantage of every single opportunity to perform is job to the fullest extent.

Chuck
D-12501, AFF/TM/SL-I, PRO, S&TA, BMCI-4

SPEAK BROTHER! +1 on Chuck