Para5-0 0 #1 January 27, 2008 I heard a rumor that the Course director position is going to be cancelled and USPA would be returning to the IE rating? I heard this from a fairly reliable source. Any insight to this would be appreciated. I will keep my opinion out of this one, for now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #2 January 27, 2008 The question is . . . what are the prerequisites going to be for the I/E rating? It used to be meet a long list of quals (which were not easy to accumulate) and pass a written exam (also not easy). Currently, to be CD you have to complete the AIC, even if you are a CD in another training method . . . e.g. a current CCD must complete AIC to be a Tanden CD regardless of other experience and qualifications.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #3 January 28, 2008 QuoteI heard a rumor that the Course director position is going to be cancelled and USPA would be returning to the IE rating? I heard this from a fairly reliable source. Any insight to this would be appreciated. I will keep my opinion out of this one, for now. No insights or opinions here but it's not a rumor that it's under consideration. It's on the S&T committee agenda for the upcoming board meeting: http://www.uspa.org/news/notices/STAgenda0208.pdfOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #4 January 28, 2008 I've heard the same rumors....I'd like to know the facts also. I just wonder how it will all play out if things change. I'm an SL, Tandem, AFF I/E and a CCD, SL CD and Tandem CD(Vector/Sigma I/E) and I've been thru and passed the AIC. I know right now there is no way to become a USPA I/E because they have removed it, but if they reinstate it what are they going to do with someone like me? I know the old standards to be an I/E were tough to meet and the tests were a real pain to pass but they were based only on general knowledge and not flying skills. Right now I know there are I/E's out there that have no right to be any type of course director. I have almost 1000 AFF jumps and have been an evaluator at a few courses and I know I'm not ready to be an AFF course director. I know USPA has made the AFF course easier, hopefully they are smart enough to not dumb down the course director appointment. But it's the USPA and the loudest and most influential voice always seems to win. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #5 January 28, 2008 One more thought, I heard that they were considering some sort of grandfather clause. Similar to when they did away with AFF JM, and made all JMS Instructors. I personally completed the entire IE card and sent it in, to find out they would not issue it due to the fact they discontinued the rating. I then went to AIC, then to CCD. Now USPA will tell me that was a waste of time and money? Whos on first? I feel like I am swimming upstream here. I just emailed Jim Crouch, I will advise of his thoughts on the issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 January 28, 2008 I never understood how you could certify new USPA instructors without an "Instructor Examiner" overseeing the process. It seems that - over the years - USPA's IE program evolved into a "supernumery" positon, kind of like an Army sargent major ... someone who has no official role, but can fill in a pinch for any gaps in the staffing. Also, IEs were expected to be grey-bearded overseers, who gracefully steered young jumpers away from re-inventing habits that killed people twenty years earlier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #7 January 28, 2008 Quote kind of like an Army sargent major ... someone who has no official role, but can fill in a pinch for any gaps in the staffing. Sounds like if I were in the Canadian Army, I would have more time to skydive during the week! I need to get me one of them "no official role" jobs. The quals for Instructor/Examiner included instruction, competition, camera work, a Rigger ticket, and others. The rating was supposed to indicate a "well rounded" and "senior" skydiver. In those days, by the time you had all of those things, it was no surprises to see beards turning gray. Maybe somebody can pull out an old SIM and list the old I/E requirements?Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #8 January 28, 2008 Well my understanding of the I/E rols as it stands right now is something like a USPA S&TA at large..... I dug out my old I/E stuff and found a proficiency cardI scanned it and attached it....You can see most of the requirements are pretty basic stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #9 January 28, 2008 What's JCC / ICC?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #10 January 28, 2008 It's an old term ...Jumpmaster Certification Course and Intructor Certification Course Back in the day before coaches..You had to be a jumpmaster for a year before becoming and Instructor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #11 January 28, 2008 That card is great, kind of funny looking back at it. I do know that they had a I/E prficiency card at one point. Similar to the A license card. Does anyone have that one? Probably around 2002 or so. I was also advised that they are looking at a 2 year grandfather from CD to I/E. The AIC(Advanced Instructor Course) will become the IEC (Instructor Examiner Course). Again it seems to be in the infantile stages. Also Tandem and AFF CD's will be grandfathered to IE's in their respective areas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #12 January 28, 2008 I took one of the first AIC's back when Rob Laidlaw was the only course director. If USPA is going to turn the AIC into an I/E course thats probly good news and any future directors. I thought the AIC was much easier than the I/E exams, a couple of those like the sporting codes and record attempts were a complete bitch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #13 January 28, 2008 Like I advised USPA, I just want a clear concise path from new student up through I/E. Like a flowchart that we can reference, to show how we as instructors got to where we are. If we tried that now it would look like a family tree from some tribe who beleived in crossbreeding. Everyone of us went a differnet route. Why is this request so outlandish? After A,B,C,D, then Coach rating, then (Tandem, AFF, SL, IAD) then IEC, then IE in whichever specialty. I know you can get coach after B and 50 jumps, questionable, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #14 January 28, 2008 I totally agree about the flow chart...Make a very easy to read step by step method without the grey areas...... And to be a coach is B-license and at least 100 jumps....still you don't have to be very experienced to get the rating but I'm guessing they wanted to keep the jump numbers in line with the old Jumpmaster rating, that too was 100 jumps(for SL and IAD at least) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #15 January 28, 2008 Quote I need to get me one of them "no official role" jobs. I thought you did! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #16 January 29, 2008 Quote kind of like an Army sargent major ... someone who has no official role, but can fill in a pinch for any gaps in the staffing. ROTFLMAO!!!! Priceless, I am going to print that out and put it where the SGM's can see it. Now I know what I have been striving to achieve all these years. "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #17 January 29, 2008 Just got some new information, looks like the new, new, new method will require 50 evaluation jumps amongst other requirements for AFF and TM I/E. under the supervision of a CD,(I mean IE) or whatever the heck they are gonna call it. Thoughts on that requirement? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #18 January 29, 2008 I'm not sure how that will work for the Tandem I/E(it would really make things a pain!) but if it's done correctly I think thats not out of line for the AFF I/E....I personally would have no issues at all doing the jumps with a AFF course director if I wanted to be a course director...I just wonder what they will do with people like me that are AFF I/E's right now. The only thing i'm not a course director for is the AFF course but I have been an evaluator at a few courses. USPA seems to want to re-vamp things and change things all the time...JCC/ICC to the BIC, to coach courses to the AIC and every change they make there end up guys like me that just seem to get grand fathered into the next higher level. Now I've always gone the extra step and done the work to get my proper ratings...Probly one of the only AFF-I's( and BIC director) that when the coach course came out went and sat thru a course. I figured if I'm going to be teaching the course I should damn well actually have the rating. But there are alot of people who don't have the same mind set I do and when they get grand fathered into a higher level they take it and run(unfortunately sometimes act like they have earned it) as was the case with ALOT of JM's that got grand fathered into I's without every attending an I course.......I guess only time will tell, but I truely wish USPA would take their time, do research and look well into future possibilities before making changes and then having to tweak them or make more changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #19 January 29, 2008 Dicky, I'm answering your post, Kelly, I hope you are reading. The "traditional" I/E has (already) been "retired". It seems the rating is no longer considered worthwhile, and since there are only about 50-60 current I/E's, USPA's attitude is that they will "die out" eventually. Those who hold the rating will still be able to renew it in the current manner. I would hope that people would call those holding it something like "Honorary" I/E, but my guess is that people will disrespect those who worked hard to earn that rating by using something like "old IE". They are re-using the title I/E to replace the next level of rating being created, which is Course Director "trainer", (for lack of a better name.) Ask the USPA S&T committee for more info. There are many things left to determine, that is why there is little information available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #20 January 29, 2008 Thanks, Peek I received a power point with the entire flow chart and requirements for each. I would post but I am not sure if it is supposed to be out there prior to USPA BOD approval. I will comment that we are moving in the right direction, but I still have some serious concerns as well as questions. I will sit and wait, I did in fact bring my concerns up to the proper people at USPA, and I beleive they will indeed be our voice. The fact is we need a permanent, clear path that is self sufficient. The new IEC (Instructor Examiner Course will replace the AIC concentrating more on being a instructor examiner. I beleive that any changes will take effect by Oct 08" so please voice any concerns to the appropriate department down at USPA prior to the Meeting in Orlando, I did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #21 January 30, 2008 Gary, Am I reading your post correctly that I/E's will make CD's who will in turn make I's and C's? And that the new IEC will not so much replace the AIC, but rather be an additional level above it? Yes, I know I could have thrown AFF, IAD, S/L, and TAN in there, but there already seemed to be more than enough initials to confuse the matter. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #22 January 30, 2008 QuoteAm I reading your post correctly that I/E's will make CD's who will in turn make I's and C's? And that the new IEC will not so much replace the AIC, but rather be an additional level above it? I don't know for sure. All of this has been going on for so long that there have been more changes than I can keep track of. Fatigue is the word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #23 January 31, 2008 AIC will be no longer, replaced by IEC. I have not seen the sylabus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #24 March 1, 2008 I posted an update on this subject here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3140496;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #25 July 28, 2008 QuoteI posted an update on this subject here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3140496;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed; And now USPA has given their official word here. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
