Overweight or out of shape AFFI and or TI

[skrovi 0]

I'm neither an AFFI or a TI, just a coach. However, I figured this is a good forum to post. there are several posts on how you handle overweight tandem passengers or big AFF students. My question is how much of a risk is an overweight and out of shape AFFI/ TI Instructors are. The reason I'm bringing this is because I attended coach course several months ago and was absolutely appalled at some of the students who were taking AFFI and TI rating course, they could barely arch because they had a natural arch going on with their beer belly and they are expected to chase students (well in all honesty they should be flyinig close to their students), match the student's fall rate etc. Besides what kind of an image the new instructors are projecting to the non skydiving community. Am I wrong in assuming that skydiving Instructor ratings is not for everyone, there needs to be committment, discipline and high standards that needs to be maintained and projected. Particularly I was surprised with the following:
a) Physical standards
b) Most of the new Instructors have less belly flying jumps since most of the jumpers are freeflyers now a days.
c) how little theoritical knowledge the course students had on FJC. They could not recite the cloud clearence jump conditions however, they "claimed" to all about swooping a pocket rocket canopy with barely 800 -900 jumps. Mind you every one else was there for their AFF/ TI rating and I was there only for my coach rating and was the only low time juper able to recite the cloud clearance information.
d) at the 100% pass rate for that course,
Any comments or thoughts. I just want to make sure I'm not being unreasonable in my assumptions.

PS: edited to make spelling corrections.

[AFFI 0]

Don't worry about it, I know plenty of beerbellied JMs the can readily handle solo freefall students.

Besides, it's all about the ground training.

Don't be concerned about the others, learn all you can about teaching and be the best instrtuctor you can be...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[faulknerwn 36]

Yeah I wouldn't be so concerned about the beer bellies - I wish I weighed more sometimes! In my course I was strapping on 15 pounds of lead to just try and stay with the "students"! I've worn over 20 on real-life AFF jumps - unfortunately we seem to have more big guys than little girls learning to skydive out here!

[NickDG 23]

No worries, students, in general, tend to fall fast. It's not until they start actually trying stuff that they slow down.

The late Al Frisby said it best.

"The dumb bastards, they install slinks, then they strap on lead . . ."

NickD

[AndyMan 7]

I don't know you, but just based on what you've written here I'm pretty sure that I could fly circles around you, even though I'm a beer bellied fat-ass.

Don't worry so much about others. Worry about being the best that you can be. Worry about improving yourself, not knocking others down.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[skrovi 0]

excellent advice, thank you

[MikiBee 0]

i do know you, SHIVA. we did the course together and i'm pretty sure that i am one of the "overweight beer bellied fat asses" being talked about and also the guy flying a "pocket rocket" with barely any jumps. on the other hand i have more jumps on this canopy than you do total. i bet i can out fly you in any orientation and under canopy. you are acting petty and arrogant. you can recite cloud coverage all you want, whats that prove that you can read and remember. there were over 11 thousand jumps between the other 5 guys in the course and you feel that you're better than us with 400 and can critique our abilities. stop worrying about any of us and take care of your own shit. anyways as i recall you were the guy having teaching problems because you got too nervous and flustered. and who the hell are you to get on the internet and bash on the class and our evaluator, who by the way is an excellent one at that. obviously you are just an internet tough guy who had nothing to say in person and hides there profile on the internet. you haven't jumped with any of us and think you can judge any of our abilities. you know who i am and where to find me if you want to give me some more of your opinions. good luck to you

[AggieDave 6]

I'm an overweight TI that tends to do fairly well with students. I even do ok moving around in those narrow body 182s with a tandem rig on. But I don't fit your criteria since my canopy is over 100sq ft.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[riggerrob 558]

We might take you seriously if you completed your profile.

[freefalle 0]

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We might take you seriously if you completed your profile.

or if you knew WTF you were talking about.

[jvcvudu 0]

I feel it important to maintain some level of fitness and a sense of body weight due to height, age, gender, etc. Good body mechanics will only help in getting better at and enhancing instructor skills. Physical condition as well as mental stability are proven keys in all sports. I personally add a "zero tolerance" to myself as I do not partake in any illegal drugs and do not drink alcohol, all while being a responsible TI and coach (in pretty good shape!)

[popsjumper 2]

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My question is how much of a risk is an overweight and out of shape AFFI/ TI Instructors are.

Nobody could argue convincingly against an in-shape guy having the potential to out-perform the out-of-shape guy. But there's much more to it than that. It's all about skill level...even old fat guys can perform in the air. If the performance is there, the conditioning can be improved on a personal level.

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...they could barely arch because they had a natural arch going on with their beer belly and they are expected to chase students (well in all honesty they should be flyinig close to their students), match the student's fall rate etc.

Again, all about skill level....dressing for success is included in that.

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Besides what kind of an image the new instructors are projecting to the non skydiving community.

None. They don't see them or hear of them. Ask your non-skydiving friends how many AFFIs they know of.

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Am I wrong in assuming that skydiving Instructor ratings is not for everyone, there needs to be committment, discipline and high standards that needs to be maintained and projected.

No. You are not wrong at all. I don't think there's an AFFI out there who would disagree with the need for the attributes you list. But, physical body shape is secondary to performance.

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Particularly I was surprised with the following:
a) Physical standards
b) Most of the new Instructors have less belly flying jumps since most of the jumpers are freeflyers now a days.

These don't concern me. It's about neither body shape nor jump numbers. Again, it's all about performance.

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c) how little theoritical knowledge the course students had on FJC. They could not recite the cloud clearence jump conditions...

This does concern me. In my travels, I have seen waaaay too many AFFIs short change students on knowledge-based material. In far too many instances we are raising jumpers, not skydivers. Jumpers who seem to think that all there is to the sport is jump, pull, land, repeat. Too few skydivers who know safety and gear. Sadly, A-license holders who have never touched a SIM and remember so very little about what little there was on the progression card. And even more sadly, the AFFIs that pass them through without providing them the knowledge that could some day save their lives.
I would expect that AFFIs have that knowledge AND the ability to pass it on to their charges.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[blackout 0]

First AFP jump i did with one instructor who also taught the ground school was a heavy guy and it could have been my lack of skill but it seemed almost like he was dragging me down because of his fall rate. It did however, teach me how to arch myself in half

Then again i weigh 125lbs on a good day so almost everyone falls faster than me until I arch like mad

[Para5-0 0]

Just curious, why would a oveweight, big bellied AFFI have to have a good arch? They probably are very successful flying flat so to speak, the majority of students are not fast fallers they are spread out wide. Unless of course they are tumbling then I bet you wish you had that extra weight to get to them quick. I think when it comes to flying ability, AFFI's tend to have a extememly wide range when it comes to fall rate. They can burn it down if need be, or slow down if need be, beleive me if they had issues it would have come out in the AFFIRC. I am positive, these guys can fly their ass's off and I do not know any of them. Dont be too quick to judge, until you go through AFFIRC and log a thousand AFF jumps without incident.
I have seen big AFF guys kick ass in the air. If I use your rational then excessively light and small AFF's should pose a problem also? Again, I have seen SMALL light girls kick some serious ass at AFF. I think politely put try not to judge, but try to be the best coach you can be, ultimately I imagine you might be one of those AFF guys someday.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Just curious, why would a oveweight, big bellied AFFI have to have a good arch? They probably are very successful flying flat so to speak, the majority of students are not fast fallers they are spread out wide. Unless of course they are tumbling then I bet you wish you had that extra weight to get to them quick. I think when it comes to flying ability, AFFI's tend to have a extememly wide range when it comes to fall rate. They can burn it down if need be, or slow down if need be, beleive me if they had issues it would have come out in the AFFIRC. I am positive, these guys can fly their ass's off and I do not know any of them. Dont be too quick to judge, until you go through AFFIRC and log a thousand AFF jumps without incident.
I have seen big AFF guys kick ass in the air. If I use your rational then excessively light and small AFF's should pose a problem also? Again, I have seen SMALL light girls kick some serious ass at AFF. I think politely put try not to judge, but try to be the best coach you can be, ultimately I imagine you might be one of those AFF guys someday.

Read her post one more time.....

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Para5-0 0]

Sorry , I was responding to orig. poster.