Sigma 370 versus Hop 330

[camamel 0]

Is there somebody out there with couples hundreds jumps on both mains? That way we can compare.
I have 1500 + jumps on 370's and I don't see anything that open and land as nice.

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.

[diablopilot 2]

You prefer the Sigma 370 to the HOP 330?

Funny I like the opposite. The Sigma openings are inconsistant IMO, and it's a beast of a canopy to fly around compared to the HOP.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[camamel 0]

Yes I like the 370's but I never jump the Hop.
I ask for a demo but they told me they don't do that anymore. That,s why I am asking.
Do you have many jumps on a Hop?
With a 200 pounds passenger and no wind witch kind of landing can you expect?
What happen if you end up with line twist on opening? With a Sigma it's no big deal.
I have to agree that the toggle pressure is ...on the + side specialy with passenger over 200.
How do you compare both canopy?

Thqnks

Richard

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.

[Fledgling 0]

I would stick with the Sigma 370 over the HOP due to the fact that the HOP gets funky when there is turbulence around, especially when it is lightly loaded. If you want something with less toggle pressure you should try the Sigma 340, I just bought one and love it. It easily turns as lightly as the HOP but I don't have to worry about the turbulence like when I'm on the HOP.

[Miami 0]

I'll second that comment for the sigma 340...just jumped one this past weekend and loved it. If I were going to buy a tandem main for myself (and I couldn't try out the firebolt beforehand) I would get the sigma 340. I've never jumped a HOP though, so I cannot provide a comparison. My experience with tandem canopies are Sigma 370/395, Cobalt 350/390, Set 400, Icarus 365, Rage ~360, EZ 384/425, and the pd 500.

Miami

[camamel 0]

Thanks Flegling and Miami.
I was supposed to receive a demo 340 last year but when the offer finally came in it was October and I was closing. From what I read last winter in this forum convinced me to stay with 370. A few minutes ago Mark P from UPT told me a demo 340 will be ship to my place next Monday, so I can make up my mind myself.
TK Berkman from HOP told me they don't offer demo anymore but if you buy you have a 30 days money back.

Also thanks to Diablopilot for his Chutingstar contact.
Maybe it will work with them so I can try a HOP 330.
That way I will be able to compare those three.

Richard

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.

[skydiveoc 0]

I love the way my sigma 370 lands but my 365 icarus is a close second. the 10 chops on sigma vs 0 icarus has me realizing why deland went to all icarus though. Those dacron lines seem to want to tension knot up.

[eUrNiCc 0]

^Don't hold your breath... UPT told me that they'd send a demo Micro Sigma with a 340 by July 4th & it still hasn't arrived.
Best of luck.

Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.

[bclark 0]

The HOP 330 is my least favorite tandem main. It does very scary things in turbulence and does not flare well ( at least compared to any other tandem main I have jumped ). It does open nice and turns fast. It's glide angle is very flat. ( It looks like a cross between a skydiving parachute and a paraglider wing. )

[JoosVos 0]

The sigma openes shitty sometimes - and ofter turns sluggisch - but does very well in turbulence and is pretty forgiving

The Hop has much more forward speed - flatter glide - low toggle pressure and on no/low wind days a powerfull flare BUT when you hit that bump just before landing... it can hurt

At our DZ we have Sigma's Hop's and a A-2... on windy days we jump Sigma on no/low wind the hop and a-2

That A-2 flies really nice btw!

Have fun!

[Fledgling 0]

You can avoid a lot of the turbulence on landing if you turn them in to land instead of a straight in approach or stall surging. I don't mean hooking in, just a gentle continuous carve to cut through turbulence and build up some speed for flaring. I have also heard rumors that the new HOPS are trimmed differently to fix some of the problems.

[bclark 0]

If you have to do something to make the parachute land well ( turn to final or a braked / surge approach ), the parachute has poor flight and landing characteristics. I like a main that will land well from a straight in, unaccelerated approach, with or without turbulence. Then if I want to put some speed on it that is my choice, not something I have to do to get a good landing flare.

[Fledgling 0]

I was just saying that if you were stuck at a DZ where they jump HOPs then there are ways to reduce some of the problems they have with turbulence.

[camamel 0]

I receive my demo 340 this morning...before the long week-end as supposed.

Richard

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.

[Rover 9]

Hops suck. Saw a 'retrimmed' Hop lose 3 or 4 cells at 50 feet in moderate winds recently. IMHO Hop + turbulance = serious injury / death!!
Have done a few jumps on a 300 square foot Icarus and it rocked, even in high winds. Mind you high performance canopy = high performance mals.......

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[DJL 232]

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The HOP 330 is my least favorite tandem main. It does very scary things in turbulence and does not flare well ( at least compared to any other tandem main I have jumped ). It does open nice and turns fast. It's glide angle is very flat. ( It looks like a cross between a skydiving parachute and a paraglider wing. )

There were two student fatalities that I know of involving HOPs flying in turbulence. Was there a modification to the airfoil to prevent this?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Zahry 0]

The HOP 330 is my most favourite tandem canopy. I did about 1200 jumps on those canopies and I've jumped it in very rough conditions. At the DZ we did about 10 000+ jumps on those canopies with very few problems.
Main thing is do not do 1200 jumps on one line set as like some dropzones (that was not mistake - I really wrote twelve hundred). The canopies are mostly out of trim after 500-700 jumps but the openings are mostly fine up to 800 - 900 jumps - that's what mostly fools the people. The line set should be exchanged after 500 - 600 jumps otherwise you can expect bad collapses in turbulence.
Everyone must sort out what they want from their canopy - if you wanna have canopy with soft openings, lot of speed, low toggle pressure and heaps of lift on landing you can not expect the canopy will fly itself back to hangar. HOPs are not for tandem masters which like to be just suspended weight under parachute. HOP you have to fly as like any other modern elliptical canopy - if you will fly it the old school style as like the old guys fly their old canopies designed almost half century ago - then it's natural you will run into troubles.

It is impossible for me to answer if Sigma 370 is better than HOP 330 or vice versa because it is purely about personal preferences - both canopies are very good.
For experienced canopy pilots with good skills I would recommend the new crossbraced H.X.P 280 - but it is completely different ball game

[DJL 232]

Is this information something that comes from the manufacturer and is taught to TM's using their gear?

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The line set should be exchanged after 500 - 600 jumps otherwise you can expect bad collapses in turbulence.

One collapse resulting in a student death was on a HOP with fewer than 600 jumps.

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HOP you have to fly as like any other modern elliptical canopy

How does this benefit the tandem passenger?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Zahry 0]

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Is this information something that comes from the manufacturer and is taught to TM's using their gear?
>>>>>
The line set should be exchanged after 500 - 600 jumps otherwise you can expect bad collapses in turbulence.
<<<<<

No, manufacturer recommends to change the line set after 400 jumps as far as I can remember.

Quote

One collapse resulting in a student death was on a HOP with fewer than 600 jumps.

What was the canopy pilot doing prior to canopy collapse? Was the canopy in a straight flight, in a snap turn or was the canopy recovering after radical speed change (radical pulling or releasing brakes?) What was condition of the line set? How experienced was the TM with elliptical canopies and handling turbulence? Was he just flying with his arms up giving up his life to fortune or was he steering the canopy through the turbulence?

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HOP you have to fly as like any other modern elliptical canopy
>>>>>
How does this benefit the tandem passenger?
<<<<<

In general, modern canopies have smooth openings and soft landings and those are the things which the passengers notice most. And if you give them the toggles they can actually fly the canopies by themselves. Perhaps the passengers can benefit from reliability of openings and good gliding ratio so they don't experience off DZ landings so often and you can keep comfortable gaps between exits. Maybe it could be the better penetration in high winds compare to most of other canopies as well. Unfortunately it doesn't come for free. As you go smaller in size you need more skills and knowledge to benefit from advantages which those canopies offer. That's the same for tandem canopies as like for other sport parachutes.

[cpoxon 0]

Quote

Quote

The HOP 330 is my least favorite tandem main. It does very scary things in turbulence and does not flare well ( at least compared to any other tandem main I have jumped ). It does open nice and turns fast. It's glide angle is very flat. ( It looks like a cross between a skydiving parachute and a paraglider wing. )

There were two student fatalities that I know of involving HOPs flying in turbulence. Was there a modification to the airfoil to prevent this?

Doug, I'm aware of one that occured at your dropzone on 7th May 2005. When/where was the other?

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[DJL 232]

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What was the canopy pilot doing prior to canopy collapse?

Straight in approach in the same conditions he'd landed plenty of "old guy" airfoils.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1635947;search_string=patrick;#1635741

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 232]

The other was at Ogden: From what I understand that one was in fairly close proximity to a building:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1897829;#1778867

As Zahry says, it's not a canopy for slow flying. To clarify, the incident with Patrick wasn't just a magical canopy collapse. There WAS turbulence. The canopy then folded in on itself and spun them into the ground in a wink.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[camamel 0]

Hi Éric

We have a demo Sigma 340 since Labour Day week end. We closed the DZ for the winter yesterday, so I will return the canopy back to UPT in the next couples days. I love that canopy. With a 220 pounds passenger and no wind I swoop an amasing distance.
In big turbulence it look even stronger than the 370.
Opening are softer and compare to the 370 the toggles pressure look more like a solo rig.
I am selling four complete Sigma rig all with 370's and I will buy 4 new ones with 340's.
Because it is smaller I think it might have less tendency to tensions nuts.

Richard

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.