S/L-IAD Do You Close The door

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Do you close the door between students or just leave it open during the go-arounds?

[livendive 8]

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Do you close the door between students or just leave it open during the go-arounds?

Absolutely close it. Messing with a pilot chute while positioning a student next to an open door or having a student get next to that open door so you can hook up his S/L both seem patently unsafe. Granted, the latter could be worked around (hook up S/L first, while blocking access to the door, then reposition), but I'd much prefer there be something besides just me between him and a guaranteed reserve ride.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[matthewcline 0]

I close it between SL passes.
But I have done many an Army SL jump (SL transition and Rounds) with doors open on many types of A/C and have had no issue (I think because of SL Control).

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[D22369 0]

I always close it, leaving it open is an unacceptable risk.


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[kittikat 0]

Hmmm... I've always left the door open after jumper #1. I tell the students to wait in the back of the plane for me to come back and check their gear / get the PC out, and so there is no messing with the PC right by the door.

I understand the reasoning for closing the door, but for an experienced instructor there should never be an issue of losing control of the PC - I simply pull it out of the pouch (all our rigs have IAD pouches on the reserve handle side of the container, so there is no reaching over the students back / rig to get the PC), pull out some excess bridle, grip the students reserve side lateral and get them to shuffle forward to the door with me. In a wide-body 182 there is plenty of room.

This is the way its been done at both DZs that I've dispatched students at, and I've done several hundred without any incidents, and never heard of any incidents. It certainly could happen, but it shouldn't be an issue with an experienced instructor.

[pchapman 261]

Static line from C-182 - no issue with pilot chutes as for IAD - so at the DZ I'm at, we leave the door open.

It is noisier while doing a final verbal run-though with each student, but it still works.

Exception: for the last student to jump, who sits in the co-pilot slot, back to the instrument panel. To make it less scary for him to turn around, we close the door before he moves into position.

[coconutmonkey 0]

Prefer to close the door. On a C-182, door anxiety for students is a pretty big factor due to proximity and close quarters. That and moving around in that tight a spot can jar a reserve pin, prefer to have a closed door in that happens. Safer and less student anxiety, works for me.

Hearts & Minds
2 to the Heart-
1 to the Mind-
Home of the Coconut Lounge, Spa, & Artillery Range

[skydave238 0]

Front door 206: We dont have a door on it at the moment. On go arounds I just hold onto the students harness and hook them up as they are moving into positon. I always keep a hand on the harness or on the door side of the legs just to reassure them.

Back door 206: Has a door. On go arounds i close it.

I seem to find that students are less anxious with the door already open. They become used to the noise and wind while we are climbing. I also find that students become more anxious if the door was closed and is only open while on run-in. That sudden rush of wind and noise and no time to get used to it seems to make them more anxious.

Dave

Ready...Set...Go..!

SkydiveSwakop

[BIGUN 1,053]

S/L - Yes
IAD - Yes

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[kwmontreal 0]

I can't see any good reasons for leaving the door open. I can see many for keeping it closed ... the least of which is safety. Whatever of the two systems you use there is always the danger of an open reserve/main container. If the door is already open, and a student behind you pops the reserve, good luck to you! Not to mention ease of instruction, calming of students, .....you get the idea. Close the door. My 0.02


Kent

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE!

[riggerrob 558]

I prefer to keep the door closed for 80 percent of the flight, only opening it long enough to spot and allow the IAD or S/L student to climb out.
The longer the door stays closed, the lower the risk of draping a pilot chute over the tail.
The whole concept of fumbling with a pilot chute or static-line - near the open door of an airplane - just scares me! I much prefer to have a firm grip on the pilot chute or S/L - and the student's harness - long before the pilot reaches for the door handle.

[skydivezimbabwe 0]

Focus on the student and static line control. Keep an eye on the previous student you have dispatched. Keep the jump runs tight. Hook the student up before you move him in proximity of the open door. Smile and wave as you exit at the end of your dispatch run. Let the pilot close the door
Alternatively you focus on opening and closing the door. That might make your students twitchy.

Rob-By
Check it out at http://www.skydive.co.zw Clicky!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Ya, i was asking whether the door gets closed at all rather than who actually does the opening and closing.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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This is the way its been done at both DZs that I've dispatched students at, and I've done several hundred without any incidents, and never heard of any incidents. It certainly could happen, but it shouldn't be an issue with an experienced instructor.

But of course you weren't always an experienced instructor; was the door closed between students when you were a raw rookie instructor (he asked rhetorically)?

[velvetjo 0]

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This is the way its been done at both DZs that I've dispatched students at, and I've done several hundred without any incidents, and never heard of any incidents. It certainly could happen, but it shouldn't be an issue with an experienced instructor.

Caveat: low time IAD-I here.

Just like I don't do electrical work on "hot" equipment by choice, I'll opt to close the door when handling a pilot chute for an IAD unless there's a compelling reason not to do so. Look at how many incidents have been avoided by lockout/tagout procedures in industry and construction - statistically, the added risk will catch up with you eventually no matter how careful you are. It's all about proactively managing the energy in a system, and closing the door is basically the same thing - controlling the energy from the relative wind.

So, what's a compelling reason to keep the door open? I'll buy jump plane with no door as an equipment constraint, but beyond that I need some convincing.

Lance

[SaraBellum 0]

Regarding S/L out of a C-182 only: I have never shut the door between students. A gear check is completed and the student is hooked up prior to movement into final position.

S/L handling has never been made difficult for me because of this. I can understand how having a PC in the picture might change things, however.

I also think closing the door for student comfort is a valid point, but would probably only do so if the student were in serious need of calming.

[dgw 8]

*pleb speaking*

When I was on static ine (direct bag), the procedure was to to snap the S/L shackle onto the 'strong point' before embarking, and the student was then handed the static line to give it a good firm yank, prior to emplaning. There was none of this rigging static lines up enroute.

[livendive 8]

Quote

*pleb speaking*

When I was on static ine (direct bag), the procedure was to to snap the S/L shackle onto the 'strong point' before embarking, and the student was then handed the static line to give it a good firm yank, prior to emplaning. There was none of this rigging static lines up enroute.

That's usually the case for the student who will be jumping first, but not for subsequent students.

Edit to add: (and by "usually", I mean in my experience. In recent years, it's been rare for me to have more than one S/L student on a load, as all but the biggest students jump IAD)

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Andrewwhyte 1]

When I worked at a DZ that used static line we had an identical procedure.

[dgw 8]

I was mulling it over.

I did thirteen SL jumps in Ireland, and the procedure was as described: everybody got hooked up prior to emplaning, gave it a tug, and off we went. The planes were Cessnas 182 and 206, with three or four students per lift.

I did four SL jumps in the UK from a PAC750, where I was hooked up prior to emplaning. However, I was the only SL jumper on each occasion.

In a different UK DZ, I have observed SL operations from an Islander. All SL students were hooked up prior to emplaning.

Just my observations...

[kittikat 0]

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But of course you weren't always an experienced instructor; was the door closed between students when you were a raw rookie instructor (he asked rhetorically)?

Lol. Of course not - as a rookie I did what I was taught.

The reason I was given in the course for leaving the door open was that the students get used to the wind noise and it reduces anxiety. I'm not arguing with anyone, just answering the question.

[skypuppy 1]

I have never seen a static-line that was NOT hooked up before the plane started to taxi.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone