Handicam Incidents? Have one? heard of one?

[toronto_bill 0]

We are going to start doing handicam video for tandems, and I wonder about the incident record so far. Anyone hear about any handicam cutaways? Or tense moments without a cutaway system?

Some Video guys dont have cutaways on their helmets, but thats their decision. A TI has another person to consider...the passenger. So I see having a glove with a cutaway as almost mandatory.

Another point is, do you have a pilot chute for the camera? I expect no one does..but I have been surprised endlessly by what people do and don't do.

[steveorino 7]

I have had a reserve ride as a TM with a handicam and it posed no interference whatsoever for my emergency procedures.

steveOrino

[tombuch 0]

There was a tandem fatality in Guam, I think, that involved a TI wearing a handicam. I had been asking the FAA to release details about the handicam, and if it was in anyway involved in the double fatality, but they never did. As I recall, that incident was being investigated by a very knowledgeable inspector based in Hawaii.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[tqsmile 0]

I have had no problems with the handcam and 90% of my tandems have been with,have had 1 reserve ride and cam was not a problem.good footage i must say.Two points to consider having a cutaway gives you another handle,pilot shute will make what is bulky more bulky.the cam is on the back of your hand out of the way.I will still say yes to any ideas to make it safer.I don't know of any bad situation where the handcam was to blame but as life goes one will appear,which I hope does not.
Rule with handcam,fly the tandem first then video.

TQ
I am me and you are you, so deal with it!!!
www.skydivepe.com

[PhreeZone 14]

I've recieved a few PM's that also say that the recent double fatal in Africa also had a Handcam on the instructor but I don't have any other details beyond that.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[birddog 0]

What sort of situation would you cutaway a handcam??.

Deal with it

[toronto_bill 0]

I haven't jumped one yet, which is the reason for posting this thread.

The idea that line(s) could catch on it, somewhat like a camera helmet, is a bit of a concern. But, during deployment, my hand is about as far away from the canopy as it can get. I have always dumped stable on my belly. But, I am trying to be ready in case that isn't the deal, and it leads to an entanglement.

Quote

What sort of situation would you cutaway a handcam??

I would say when you have lines caught on the camera. A reserve entanglement being the worst? But there is no guarentee a handcam cutaway will allow the canopy to deploy.

thanks for the input so far...

Bill

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Quote

What sort of situation would you cutaway a handcam??.

I have never heard of anyone "cutting away" a hand cam setup. There are people who read this forum with well over 1000 such jumps; hopefully they will pipe in. Me? I have never had any instances where my hand cam worried me. That said, I only have around 40 such jumps using my glove.

[koppel 3]

I ahve only about 550 H/C jumps and never an issue. As someone earlier said the FIRST and MOST important thing is to fly the tandem as you would without it. ie do your JOB first and Film only & ONLY IF everything is going to plan. Otherwise you can ignore it and it does nothing to hinder you... I run a 0.2 Cookie Composites lens which allows me to almost completely ignore the camera and fly normally without having to reach to get good shots (except for the very cool extreme close up on their faces )

I suggest that if people are truely interested to hear from TM's that use it a lot and have way more experience than me you place a post here as you will find many that have over a few thousand jumps with H/C

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[flyfree2day 0]

I had two cutaways with the glove on. Had no problem. Over a thousand jumps with the hand cam and never had an issue where I had get rid of the glove. Spent two years with a handy cam DZ and out of the couple thousand jumps that all of the instructors did, know one had an problems where they had to get rid of the glove. Just to let ya know

[rhys 0]

I Have a couple of hundred hand cam jumps, one cutaway and no problems. If anything it is better for altitude awareness (not that that should b a problem) as you look at the alti at the same time as the camera.

The footage is still shit compared to outside camera though, whatever way you look at it ( I am talking about comparing good examples of both types of filming). I guess that only matters when you have amazing scenery around you as well though. It does help small DZ owners make a little more profit and can be mixed with outside footage to make the ultimate video.

All in all, it is really contributing to the separation of sport and commercial skydiving.

Sorry about the tangent but I really do have mixed feelings about the handicam.


Handicam is goodbad or is it badgood?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[toronto_bill 0]

Yeah, it seems it would have a bit of a polarizing effect. On a small dropzone, the few making money make more.

Our dropzone has almost no video, so this won't be too bad for us. Something is better than nothing.

[riggerrob 558]

I have done about 600 tandems - with hand-cams and sewed dozens more for other TIs.
You are the first to suggest a cutaway system!

I guess the deciding factor is the tiny size of modern video cameras. They are simply too small to pose a risk.

Kind of like me doing my first few helmet-mounted videos with a VCR strapped to my chest - during the mid 1980s - then waiting until video cameras were small enough to bolt every thing to a helmet. All those cables and remote switches and after-market bells and whistles were just too much for a weekend skydiver to manage.

[toolbox 0]

I have over 3000 handycam tandems and have had over 24 chops while wearing the camera (in las vegas) and it has not been any problem at all.
It actually makes for some cool footage.

[toronto_bill 0]

Thanks to all who have responded.

Yeah, my idea of a cutaway system is seeming a bit overboard, given the low likelyhood of an entanglement.
My other concern was that a cutaway is just one more thing to get snagged...(accidental cutaways idea)

[dgw 8]

There is some speculation in the Incidents forum in the "Namibia incident" thread. It mentions the handicam as a speculated contributor to the incident.

[toronto_bill 0]

Well, that might change things. thanks. I'll watch that thread.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

There have been a few handicam equipped tandems go in. There have always been those who speculate whether or not the handicam was a contributing factor; the speculators have usually been outside video guys. The Guam fatality and one in Tokyo around the same time come to mind. I have never heard any evidence to back up the speculation in either case.

[Deisel 35]

*bump*

Now that we have a few more years worth of data, would anyone care to share any lessons learned or opinions? And let me be clear - this is about the safety of handicams, not the video quality. That's another matter all together.

Is the 100(UPT)/200(USPA) jump requirement before using a handicam still valid? Should USPA or UPT make a change? I suspect that handicams have not posed any significant issue for TIs.

I also suspect that this thread will be getting moved shortly.

D

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[parachutist 1]

Deisel

Is the 100(UPT)/200(USPA) jump requirement before using a handicam still valid?

I like the 200 requirement. HC is a distraction that shouldn't be added when the TI's learning the ropes. Canopy flight is where I think the distraction matters most, so the more canopies in the air simultaneously, the more experience required. The 100 requirement might be ok for 2-3 tandems in the air, but not for a twin otter DZ, imo.

Chris

[irishrigger 31]

I think 500 tandem min before wearing a glove cam and then getting a very thourough brief in how to use one. i reckon i have about 3000+ handicams under my belt, it never interfered with any EP that i had to carry out, and i have had quiet a few.
bottom line is if there is a problem to deal with,forget your wearing the glove and do your job!

[TaylorC 0]

irishrigger

I think 500 tandem min before wearing a glove cam and then getting a very thourough brief in how to use one. i reckon i have about 3000+ handicams under my belt, it never interfered with any EP that i had to carry out, and i have had quiet a few.
bottom line is if there is a problem to deal with,forget your wearing the glove and do your job!

Come on man its always about getting the shot! Safety second video 1st!

I started doing handcams at 82 tandems under my belt and i was for sure not ready for it. Thankfully i never ended up getting hurt or in a bad situation early on with one. 500 tandems might be a little steep but then it again it comes down to if the person is really ready or not. Some people will be ready at 100 tandems and some should never strap a glove to their hand.

[Deisel 35]

Do you have a reason for that number?

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[AaronComp 0]

Saw a few issues with toggle, never had issues myself, everything I do now is very very different from my past, so its hard to talk about. When I first was learning filming the student through landing, I was like a little weird, but got the hang of it, trying to sell a multi stealth ai v pack comes with every death this aviation set has brought the planet. Im not making a habit of hunting for cam deaths but fuk ,, the world remember s sht,, the more you study the science of the eye and the brain the faster you'll be able to unplug the issue as things are set in motion you remove those negative things from the equation and see what's left to work with.Smooth is not sharp but a sharp picture is not a command to cut something. Are we clear?

[normiss 620]

Not in the least.