camamel 0 #1 March 9, 2007 As a DZO my self I know what I will do next summer with my instructors. But what you guys think is fare? What do you already earn? What do you want? And why? Thanks RichardWhen you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oosskis 0 #2 March 22, 2007 AFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, so they should get paid the most. That is never the case, but that's how it should be. TI's should get paid a competitive wage according to local industry standards and supply and demand. Packers should get $10 a tandem pack job - 2 lives depend on it and they should take the time. $7 a student rig. sport rigs are local rates, depending on supply and demand and geographic location. (Cost of living, etc.)"Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psychoswooper 2 #3 March 23, 2007 QuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, so they should get paid the most. That is never the case, but that's how it should be. Never say never....Aff I's are the highest (per jump) paid people on our DZ. $40 per jump. Very experienced tandem packers $12 & $13/per. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites oosskis 0 #4 March 23, 2007 Compared on an hourly rate, the AFFI never makes as much as a TI. A TI can make 4 jumps in the time it takes to train one level of AFF."Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #5 March 26, 2007 QuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, I'll absolutly disagree with that statement.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites oosskis 0 #6 March 26, 2007 Thanks for backing up your argument with such valid reasoning, JP. You've got me convinced. "Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NSEMN8R 0 #7 March 26, 2007 QuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, Anyone with a C license (200 jumps) and 6 hours of freefall time can take an AFF course. I don't know of any Tandem Gear manufacturers that give ratings to guys with 200 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites oosskis 0 #8 March 26, 2007 I don't know how you are going to get 6 hours of freefall time with 200 jumps... Unless you start adding tunnel time to your freefall time, which is technically wrong, because you are not in freefall. You'd be hard pressed to get 1 hour for every 60 jumps... So that's at least 360. I have yet to meet an AFFI that would have passed the course with 360 jumps... If they did the tunnel time to do it in that time then they have the skill - more skill than it takes to take out tandems."Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites camamel 0 #9 March 26, 2007 Lets talk about AFFI's and TI's. This is two complete different kind of job. In the first case it is closer to formation skydiving because you have to move in 3D. To stay alert it is very nice ( you also have to stay alert to do it!!!), at the opening time you are with your solo rig so you can enjoy the ride back to earth with your main canopy.The down side is: Even with the best team work it will be hard to do 10 or 12 quality jumps a day and after couples years you'll eventually need a new main. With the TI's on the other side it look like they don't need that much of formation skydiving experience because they don't play in 3D. WRONG. What team exit (formation skydiving or freefly) teach you is the dynamic of the wind out of the door. In tandem exit and opening are the two most critical part of every jump. Yes it is easy with experience to do 12 jumps a day and during all those jumps your own rig stay in your locker.The down side is: On opening the TI stay with his custommer when an emergency happen (is also a big + the rest of the time). If we compare a good AFFI and a good TI I think both should be hi skills skydivers, no difference in my mind. But I have to agree with you on one point. AFF course is a lot harder to pass than the TI course. I am a TIE since 93 and I think 500 jumps and 3 years in sport should be at least 1000 jumps and 4 years. Having only 5 jumps to evaluate new instructors is not enough. Personnaly, since couples years, I had some 4 way jumps. About the pay they should paid equal. RichardWhen you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #10 March 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, I'll absolutly disagree with that statement. Some are pretty good though... Some totally suck... Like anything in life I guess.. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NSEMN8R 0 #11 March 27, 2007 QuoteI don't know how you are going to get 6 hours of freefall time with 200 jumps... Unless you start adding tunnel time to your freefall time, which is technically wrong, because you are not in freefall. You'd be hard pressed to get 1 hour for every 60 jumps... So that's at least 360. I have yet to meet an AFFI that would have passed the course with 360 jumps... If they did the tunnel time to do it in that time then they have the skill - more skill than it takes to take out tandems. Even with tons of tunnel time, no one with 360 jumps is the "most qualified, most experienced and most capable" instructor. They might have great freefall skills, but there's more to it when you're dealing with "4 arms, 4 legs, 5 handles, and a pilot chute in tow". edit to add: I think TIs should make more than AFFIs because in the end if everything goes to shit, the AFF guy can just let go. TIs can't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #12 March 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteI don't know how you are going to get 6 hours of freefall time with 200 jumps... Unless you start adding tunnel time to your freefall time, which is technically wrong, because you are not in freefall. You'd be hard pressed to get 1 hour for every 60 jumps... So that's at least 360. I have yet to meet an AFFI that would have passed the course with 360 jumps... If they did the tunnel time to do it in that time then they have the skill - more skill than it takes to take out tandems. Even with tons of tunnel time, no one with 360 jumps is the "most qualified, most experienced and most capable" instructor. They might have great freefall skills, but there's more to it when you're dealing with "4 arms, 4 legs, 5 handles, and a pilot chute in tow". edit to add: I think TIs should make more than AFFIs because in the end if everything goes to shit, the AFF guy can just let go. TIs can't. TIs do earn more as they are the ones most likely to be tipped. As far as your AFFI statement goes, a newly minted AFFI will have tough time getting hired, especially at larger DZs. Jump numbers do count. Having an AFFI with ~360 jumps will not get you a job, nor will a TI with around 500 jumps. Well, at least not at any DZ here in SoCal.... Also, please do not disrespect the AFFI skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NSEMN8R 0 #13 March 27, 2007 No disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jheadley 0 #14 March 27, 2007 QuoteNo disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. What about the guys who do several hundred hop and pops to get their tandem rating? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #15 March 27, 2007 QuoteNo disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. What???? I have been trying to stay out of this argument, this thread is beginning to make about as much sense as a circumsized dog... Yeah, right, whatever... They are just handing out AFF ratings these days anyway eh? -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #16 March 27, 2007 QuoteNo disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. I think such distinctions are best made by people who do both. For me, AFF is more mentally tiring. Tandems are more physically tiring. I was ready for a tandem rating long before I was ready for an AFF rating, and I think anyone who has the ability and maturity to do proper AFF could also be a good TI (physical demands being noted). At the end of a full day, either will have me ready for a beer, a sammich, and a nap. Ideally, a full day of AFF and a full day of tandems would pay about the same, but the economics are such that parity between the paychecks will rarely, if ever, be achieved. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 March 27, 2007 What is the pass rate for the AFF course? (Of course it used to be a lot harder with a much lower pass rate) What s the pass rate for the TI course? Every AFFI I have seen could be a TI. Not every TI I have seen could be an AFFI. (I have seen people fail the AFF course several times, the old course, give up and just go get their tandem rating.) AFFI's have to actually teach. Some TI's do teach, but most simply hook up and go. With AFF, the student can actually get away from the AFFI and the AFFI must be able to fly well enough to catch them again, regardless. If they cannot, they should not be an AFFI. With tandems, where are they going to go? A TI does not need to flying skills to catch a flaing student. For AFF exits, the AFFI has to fly their body and control the student. For tandem exits, the TI just arches and you are good. Being an AFFI requires much more skill, takes more time for each jump, and takes more mental effort than being a TI. An AFFI should definitely earn more than a TI per jump. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #18 March 27, 2007 Once again, Derek has put into words what I could not Well put... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #19 March 27, 2007 QuoteAFFI's have to actually teach. Not lately. The AFFI rating has become so easy to obtain, and DZ's have been so willing to fire volumes of jumpers through a cookie cutter course that the overall skill of an "A" licenced jumper is pitiful. Does 400 jumps and 18 months in the sport make an AFF instructor? How about when 90% of said jumps are 4 way, or Freefly? What about when said instructor rarely packs for themselves and has next to no knowledge of the gear they jump? When they jump a canopy they are scared of, and yell at people for "getting to close to them under canopy". When they can be heard bitching about bad spots all day but never check it themselves? When they have already been seen charging coach students $50 a jumps for their "expertise". Most importantly what kind of students does that person turn out? In the current system they MAY be qualified to supervise someone through an AFF lever, but in NO WAY are they competent enough to train and produce a "Skydiver".---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nbblood 0 #20 March 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteAFFI's have to actually teach. Not lately. The AFFI rating has become so easy to obtain, and DZ's have been so willing to fire volumes of jumpers through a cookie cutter course that the overall skill of an "A" licenced jumper is pitiful. Does 400 jumps and 18 months in the sport make an AFF instructor? How about when 90% of said jumps are 4 way, or Freefly? What about when said instructor rarely packs for themselves and has next to no knowledge of the gear they jump? When they jump a canopy they are scared of, and yell at people for "getting to close to them under canopy". When they can be heard bitching about bad spots all day but never check it themselves? When they have already been seen charging coach students $50 a jumps for their "expertise". Most importantly what kind of students does that person turn out? In the current system they MAY be qualified to supervise someone through an AFF lever, but in NO WAY are they competent enough to train and produce a "Skydiver". Wow! All of a sudden I feel really, really good about our DZs student training program and what we provide the student. I also feel really lucky to be working with the quality instructors I get the chance to work with and learn from. I simply haven't seen these things at our DZ. Not saying at all that this doesn't exist elsewhere, just glad to be part of the staff at my particular DZ with, what I think is, an exceptional student training program.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #21 March 27, 2007 And that is a testiment to your owners and the structure of your school. Unfortunately the AFF rating certifies someone to be an instructor on their own. Perhaps an improvement would be a requirement to be an "intern" with a profesional school, but unlike doctors or nurses there is no requirement at an AFFI to show proficiency, skill or contined education post rating course graduation.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nbblood 0 #22 March 27, 2007 Quote Unfortunately the AFF rating certifies someone to be an instructor on their own. Perhaps an improvement would be a requirement to be an "intern" with a profesional school, but unlike doctors or nurses there is no requirement at an AFFI to show proficiency, skill or contined education post rating course graduation. That is a very interesting concept and I like it. This kind of concept has helped me out a lot, both as a TI and an AFFI. I'm still relatively new to both, but fortunately at my DZ there is a ton of experience and people that are willing to help out. There is no formal "internship". However, I was "checked out" on training jumps for both AFF and Tandem prior to taking paying students. I always feel like there's somebody watching over my shoulder, watching my performance. I don't mean this in a bad way, it's a really good thing. I've received invaluable advice in both disciplines from instructors watching and evaluating my methods and techniques and giving me advice to try this or that. It has really helped develop me as an instructor. I like the idea of an internship. Of course, the other part of that is that the "intern" has got to be willing to accept constructive criticism to develop.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 0 #23 March 27, 2007 QuoteUnfortunately the AFF rating certifies someone to be an instructor on their own. Perhaps an improvement would be a requirement to be an "intern" with a profesional school, but unlike doctors or nurses there is no requirement at an AFFI to show proficiency, skill or contined education post rating course graduation. Do some reading on the Aussie system - new instructors are on probation under the supervision of a Chief Instructor for 6 months, and also have some continuing education requirements. http://www.apf.asn.au for more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #24 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, I'll absolutly disagree with that statement. I absolutely agree with JP (and that is rare) I have been teaching people to skydive for over 20 years and I do not have a tandem or AFF rating. I have trained many jumpers who later went on to get AFF and tandem ratings. Static line/ IAD instructors have always been and will continue to be the backbone of our sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfitz 0 #25 March 28, 2007 QuoteAs a DZO my self I know what I will do next summer with my instructors. But what you guys think is fare? What do you already earn? What do you want? And why? Thanks Richard Wasn't this suppose to be a thread about what instructors should earn or what they do earn? Focus people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
oosskis 0 #4 March 23, 2007 Compared on an hourly rate, the AFFI never makes as much as a TI. A TI can make 4 jumps in the time it takes to train one level of AFF."Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 March 26, 2007 QuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, I'll absolutly disagree with that statement.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oosskis 0 #6 March 26, 2007 Thanks for backing up your argument with such valid reasoning, JP. You've got me convinced. "Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #7 March 26, 2007 QuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, Anyone with a C license (200 jumps) and 6 hours of freefall time can take an AFF course. I don't know of any Tandem Gear manufacturers that give ratings to guys with 200 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oosskis 0 #8 March 26, 2007 I don't know how you are going to get 6 hours of freefall time with 200 jumps... Unless you start adding tunnel time to your freefall time, which is technically wrong, because you are not in freefall. You'd be hard pressed to get 1 hour for every 60 jumps... So that's at least 360. I have yet to meet an AFFI that would have passed the course with 360 jumps... If they did the tunnel time to do it in that time then they have the skill - more skill than it takes to take out tandems."Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camamel 0 #9 March 26, 2007 Lets talk about AFFI's and TI's. This is two complete different kind of job. In the first case it is closer to formation skydiving because you have to move in 3D. To stay alert it is very nice ( you also have to stay alert to do it!!!), at the opening time you are with your solo rig so you can enjoy the ride back to earth with your main canopy.The down side is: Even with the best team work it will be hard to do 10 or 12 quality jumps a day and after couples years you'll eventually need a new main. With the TI's on the other side it look like they don't need that much of formation skydiving experience because they don't play in 3D. WRONG. What team exit (formation skydiving or freefly) teach you is the dynamic of the wind out of the door. In tandem exit and opening are the two most critical part of every jump. Yes it is easy with experience to do 12 jumps a day and during all those jumps your own rig stay in your locker.The down side is: On opening the TI stay with his custommer when an emergency happen (is also a big + the rest of the time). If we compare a good AFFI and a good TI I think both should be hi skills skydivers, no difference in my mind. But I have to agree with you on one point. AFF course is a lot harder to pass than the TI course. I am a TIE since 93 and I think 500 jumps and 3 years in sport should be at least 1000 jumps and 4 years. Having only 5 jumps to evaluate new instructors is not enough. Personnaly, since couples years, I had some 4 way jumps. About the pay they should paid equal. RichardWhen you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #10 March 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, I'll absolutly disagree with that statement. Some are pretty good though... Some totally suck... Like anything in life I guess.. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #11 March 27, 2007 QuoteI don't know how you are going to get 6 hours of freefall time with 200 jumps... Unless you start adding tunnel time to your freefall time, which is technically wrong, because you are not in freefall. You'd be hard pressed to get 1 hour for every 60 jumps... So that's at least 360. I have yet to meet an AFFI that would have passed the course with 360 jumps... If they did the tunnel time to do it in that time then they have the skill - more skill than it takes to take out tandems. Even with tons of tunnel time, no one with 360 jumps is the "most qualified, most experienced and most capable" instructor. They might have great freefall skills, but there's more to it when you're dealing with "4 arms, 4 legs, 5 handles, and a pilot chute in tow". edit to add: I think TIs should make more than AFFIs because in the end if everything goes to shit, the AFF guy can just let go. TIs can't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #12 March 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteI don't know how you are going to get 6 hours of freefall time with 200 jumps... Unless you start adding tunnel time to your freefall time, which is technically wrong, because you are not in freefall. You'd be hard pressed to get 1 hour for every 60 jumps... So that's at least 360. I have yet to meet an AFFI that would have passed the course with 360 jumps... If they did the tunnel time to do it in that time then they have the skill - more skill than it takes to take out tandems. Even with tons of tunnel time, no one with 360 jumps is the "most qualified, most experienced and most capable" instructor. They might have great freefall skills, but there's more to it when you're dealing with "4 arms, 4 legs, 5 handles, and a pilot chute in tow". edit to add: I think TIs should make more than AFFIs because in the end if everything goes to shit, the AFF guy can just let go. TIs can't. TIs do earn more as they are the ones most likely to be tipped. As far as your AFFI statement goes, a newly minted AFFI will have tough time getting hired, especially at larger DZs. Jump numbers do count. Having an AFFI with ~360 jumps will not get you a job, nor will a TI with around 500 jumps. Well, at least not at any DZ here in SoCal.... Also, please do not disrespect the AFFI skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #13 March 27, 2007 No disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #14 March 27, 2007 QuoteNo disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. What about the guys who do several hundred hop and pops to get their tandem rating? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #15 March 27, 2007 QuoteNo disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. What???? I have been trying to stay out of this argument, this thread is beginning to make about as much sense as a circumsized dog... Yeah, right, whatever... They are just handing out AFF ratings these days anyway eh? -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #16 March 27, 2007 QuoteNo disrespect meant, but the idea that people with 360 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time have "- more skill than it takes to take out tandems" is bullshit. They may be a fine AFFI, but they're still not qualified to do tandems. I think such distinctions are best made by people who do both. For me, AFF is more mentally tiring. Tandems are more physically tiring. I was ready for a tandem rating long before I was ready for an AFF rating, and I think anyone who has the ability and maturity to do proper AFF could also be a good TI (physical demands being noted). At the end of a full day, either will have me ready for a beer, a sammich, and a nap. Ideally, a full day of AFF and a full day of tandems would pay about the same, but the economics are such that parity between the paychecks will rarely, if ever, be achieved. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #17 March 27, 2007 What is the pass rate for the AFF course? (Of course it used to be a lot harder with a much lower pass rate) What s the pass rate for the TI course? Every AFFI I have seen could be a TI. Not every TI I have seen could be an AFFI. (I have seen people fail the AFF course several times, the old course, give up and just go get their tandem rating.) AFFI's have to actually teach. Some TI's do teach, but most simply hook up and go. With AFF, the student can actually get away from the AFFI and the AFFI must be able to fly well enough to catch them again, regardless. If they cannot, they should not be an AFFI. With tandems, where are they going to go? A TI does not need to flying skills to catch a flaing student. For AFF exits, the AFFI has to fly their body and control the student. For tandem exits, the TI just arches and you are good. Being an AFFI requires much more skill, takes more time for each jump, and takes more mental effort than being a TI. An AFFI should definitely earn more than a TI per jump. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #18 March 27, 2007 Once again, Derek has put into words what I could not Well put... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #19 March 27, 2007 QuoteAFFI's have to actually teach. Not lately. The AFFI rating has become so easy to obtain, and DZ's have been so willing to fire volumes of jumpers through a cookie cutter course that the overall skill of an "A" licenced jumper is pitiful. Does 400 jumps and 18 months in the sport make an AFF instructor? How about when 90% of said jumps are 4 way, or Freefly? What about when said instructor rarely packs for themselves and has next to no knowledge of the gear they jump? When they jump a canopy they are scared of, and yell at people for "getting to close to them under canopy". When they can be heard bitching about bad spots all day but never check it themselves? When they have already been seen charging coach students $50 a jumps for their "expertise". Most importantly what kind of students does that person turn out? In the current system they MAY be qualified to supervise someone through an AFF lever, but in NO WAY are they competent enough to train and produce a "Skydiver".---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #20 March 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteAFFI's have to actually teach. Not lately. The AFFI rating has become so easy to obtain, and DZ's have been so willing to fire volumes of jumpers through a cookie cutter course that the overall skill of an "A" licenced jumper is pitiful. Does 400 jumps and 18 months in the sport make an AFF instructor? How about when 90% of said jumps are 4 way, or Freefly? What about when said instructor rarely packs for themselves and has next to no knowledge of the gear they jump? When they jump a canopy they are scared of, and yell at people for "getting to close to them under canopy". When they can be heard bitching about bad spots all day but never check it themselves? When they have already been seen charging coach students $50 a jumps for their "expertise". Most importantly what kind of students does that person turn out? In the current system they MAY be qualified to supervise someone through an AFF lever, but in NO WAY are they competent enough to train and produce a "Skydiver". Wow! All of a sudden I feel really, really good about our DZs student training program and what we provide the student. I also feel really lucky to be working with the quality instructors I get the chance to work with and learn from. I simply haven't seen these things at our DZ. Not saying at all that this doesn't exist elsewhere, just glad to be part of the staff at my particular DZ with, what I think is, an exceptional student training program.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #21 March 27, 2007 And that is a testiment to your owners and the structure of your school. Unfortunately the AFF rating certifies someone to be an instructor on their own. Perhaps an improvement would be a requirement to be an "intern" with a profesional school, but unlike doctors or nurses there is no requirement at an AFFI to show proficiency, skill or contined education post rating course graduation.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #22 March 27, 2007 Quote Unfortunately the AFF rating certifies someone to be an instructor on their own. Perhaps an improvement would be a requirement to be an "intern" with a profesional school, but unlike doctors or nurses there is no requirement at an AFFI to show proficiency, skill or contined education post rating course graduation. That is a very interesting concept and I like it. This kind of concept has helped me out a lot, both as a TI and an AFFI. I'm still relatively new to both, but fortunately at my DZ there is a ton of experience and people that are willing to help out. There is no formal "internship". However, I was "checked out" on training jumps for both AFF and Tandem prior to taking paying students. I always feel like there's somebody watching over my shoulder, watching my performance. I don't mean this in a bad way, it's a really good thing. I've received invaluable advice in both disciplines from instructors watching and evaluating my methods and techniques and giving me advice to try this or that. It has really helped develop me as an instructor. I like the idea of an internship. Of course, the other part of that is that the "intern" has got to be willing to accept constructive criticism to develop.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #23 March 27, 2007 QuoteUnfortunately the AFF rating certifies someone to be an instructor on their own. Perhaps an improvement would be a requirement to be an "intern" with a profesional school, but unlike doctors or nurses there is no requirement at an AFFI to show proficiency, skill or contined education post rating course graduation. Do some reading on the Aussie system - new instructors are on probation under the supervision of a Chief Instructor for 6 months, and also have some continuing education requirements. http://www.apf.asn.au for more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #24 March 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteAFFI's are the most qualified, most experienced and most capable instructors out there, I'll absolutly disagree with that statement. I absolutely agree with JP (and that is rare) I have been teaching people to skydive for over 20 years and I do not have a tandem or AFF rating. I have trained many jumpers who later went on to get AFF and tandem ratings. Static line/ IAD instructors have always been and will continue to be the backbone of our sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #25 March 28, 2007 QuoteAs a DZO my self I know what I will do next summer with my instructors. But what you guys think is fare? What do you already earn? What do you want? And why? Thanks Richard Wasn't this suppose to be a thread about what instructors should earn or what they do earn? Focus people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
