may be not this best form but

[callmeJ 0]

As tandem masters do you think you get paided enough for what your worth? just a question. answers buy people in all countries would be great!! because in all honest why i ask because where im at (cant mention sorry) that they are infact lower our jump rate for tandems which is bulll shit!!!!!

so i ask is there skydive professionals union??? is there such thing?? I mean for all people in the industry. Tandem masters, outside Camera people, packers.
Honestly, i cant believe there isn't yet that i can find. I know there is some problems with unions, but frankly speaking we aren't paid what we should be paid as a professional. Does anyone know anything about this matter.

Peace
callmeJ

[piisfish 135]

at my DZ it's OK.. 80CHF around 60-65$, but you pack for yourself.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[NSEMN8R 0]

We get $30/tandem and $10 for packing.

I was making double that when I was doing handcam, but none of the DZs around here will let me jump it anymore because it pisses off the vidiots.

There's no skydivers union in the US, and if there was I wouldn't have anything to do with it.

[marks2065 0]

nobody ever gets paid what they are worth but in 2003 (my last tandems) at sdi we got $30.00 a tandem (packers got $10.00 a pack) and $5.00 to train each student up to $30.00 max training $ a day

[Liemberg 0]

"You want some cheese with that whine?"

Actually, about some people it is said that their contribution to this whole thing is so valuable that it is almost impossible to put a monetary value to it. So many others feel excused for not even trying...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[rhys 0]

Quote

"You want some cheese with that whine?"

Actually, about some people it is said that their contribution to this whole thing is so valuable that it is almost impossible to put a monetary value to it. So many others feel excused for not even trying...

An I would rather be Jumping than doing a menial Job. Yes we do take risks as jumps staff but that risk was accepted well before we started getting paid for it.

Packers earn great money for the work usually, if you compare it to digging a ditch or waiting tables etc.

If you are not happy there than leave there is a whole world full of skydiving.
I was sort of in your shoes and I decided to leave now i am travling the world skydiving, I'm not wealthy but I am getting paid to travel!

chin up. Just because your boss is (potentailly) a wanker doesn't mean you have to deal with it!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[riggerrob 558]

No! Ar CAN$30 per tandem and $10 per pack job, I am not getting paid what I am worth. It is only when I strap on my handy-camera - $35 - ($70 total per jump) that I am paid what I am worth.
A union might be a nice idea, but I know several DZOs who would quit before dealing with a union.
Fortunately, the internet allows us to share pay rates and "best practices", making it more difficult for DZOs to maintain under-paid cults.

The good news is that my DZO was recently over-heard moaning about rich yuppies who have so much money that they can afford to pay for their jumps, ergo there is no financial pressure to work to offset the cost of fun jumping. So if professional (i.e. full-time) instructors can hold out another decade or two, staff shortages will drive up wages.

[teason 0]

The reality of skydiving is that you cannot make a career of it unless you are incredibly lucky.

The reality is that the job can only pay so much.

I pay my instructor more than I pay myself. Is there a way to be fairer than that?

For a joke I kept track of all my work at the DZ and only couted a Tandem as $25 (I pay $40 to my staff).

At that rate, I would have made an extra $5000 above what I made as an owner.

The reality is that at some DZs, they can't pay the same wage as a real job.

Here are some of the problems in the DZ biz as I see them

1. Cost per jump is increasing and yet the price of a jump is not keeping pace largely due to competition. For a case in point, a first jump in 1990 was more than a first jump course 16 years later even though costs have tripled.

2. Tandems (fuck do I hate tandems) have reduced the profitability per jump at a small DZ. A case in point, to make the same on a $179 FJC with a free second jump, a tandem would have to cost $255. We obviously don't charge that much.

3. Skill requirements of instructors has increased greatly. The skill set required to train students has increased to the point that instructors are worth a higher wage (I don't dispute that, I just don't believe the average small DZ can handle the strain)
This has affected the viability of DZs and has also reduced the instructor pool.

4. The age of the average instructor has greatly increased. Gone are the days of the 20 something lokking for a min wage job that is better McDonalds. The new reality is that they are now 30-50 somethings, looking to be able to afford the comforts of life. If you're like me you woke up one day at 30+ and realized you want more out of life and all you can do is jump from planes.

In the next few years, the volunteer aspect of skydiving instructors will be replaced by purely work for high pay instructors.
Small DZs and markets will shut down with the exception of small clubs. Current DZs in larger markets will fold until single dominant DZs will emerge with enough volume to satisfy the wage demands of instructors and the high cost of doing business.
DZs will become more monopolistics and jump prices for experienced jumpers will increase to reflect the higher disposable income of instructors as will equipment prices.
As skydiving becomes more economically unviable, Instructors will be an elite few putting strain on and shutting down equipment manufacturers and there by reducing equipment innovation.

These are just a few predictions. They are not caused by instructors wanting more money, that is just a symptom of the current situation.

The golden age is ending, skydiving is on a downslide.

One just has to look at fuel prices vs jump prices to see it.
One just has to look at membership numbers to see it
One just has to read the threads calling for a union to see it.

The world changes. It's survival of the fittest and I'm a fat pig.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[riggerrob 558]

Teason,
Your comments echo a conversation that I shared with my boss last week.
His lament was that modern skydivers no longer need to work as part-time instructors. This is because first jump courses and the first 500 jumps are so expensive that students need well-paying weekday jobs, jobs that pay so well that they do not need to instruct part-time to supplement their fun jumps.
Ergo, he needs to hire ex-pat Canadians - with multiple instructor ratings - who are tired of working in the USA. It is increasingly difficult to find multiple rating holders who are willing to work for not much more than minimum wage.

[riggerrob 558]

4. The age of the average instructor has greatly increased. Gone are the days of the 20 something lokking for a min wage job that is better McDonalds. The new reality is that they are now 30-50 somethings, looking to be able to afford the comforts of life. If you're like me you woke up one day at 30+ and realized you want more out of life and all you can do is jump from planes.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Welcome to the science of demographics, specifically the Baby Boom (born between 1946 and 1960 something) this great "horde of locusts" has roared across the North American landscape, consuming ravenously. Fortunately, that ravenous consumption has included skydiving. The downside of the baby boom is that there are far fewer young jumpers to full the ranks as baby boomers retire from skydiving.
Given Canada's tiny birth rate, the only way to replenish the bottom ranks of workers is to import skilled workers from Asia. The disadvantage with Asian immigrants is that most of them put their "noses to the grind stone" so hard that they lack the spare time or curiousity to explore expensive pass times like skydiving.

For example, we have Dutch, Russian, Ukrainian, British, French, South African, Swiss, Kiwi, Acadian, American, etc. licensed jumpers at Pitt Meadows, but only two Asians and only one of those asians is a first generation immigrant.

[rhys 0]

Quote

The age of the average instructor has greatly increased. Gone are the days of the 20 something lokking for a min wage job that is better McDonalds. The new reality is that they are now 30-50 somethings, looking to be able to afford the comforts of life. If you're like me you woke up one day at 30+ and realized you want more out of life and all you can do is jump from planes.

I guess that is why Steve Smith of Skydivingnz.com started the partially govornment funded Commercial skydiving diploma in New Zealand that allows people without silver spoons (such as myself) to enter the world of commercial skydiving.

I started this course4.5 years ago with NO jumps. i now have 3000 jumps mostly camera jumps, an Aff rating(hardly used) and a tandem rating. myself and my partner of 23 are running a new dropzone in the tourist aerea of Tanzania. although I am not in my early 20's anymore (32 yesterday) i was a snowboard bun 5 years ago and had this opportunity put before me.

we are not just work jumpers as we competed at the world meet in august.

so I guess it is not a case of skydiving in general sliding down the hill it is a case of skydiving metimorphasising into a tourist trade. it is booming in New Zealand at a rate that is out of control.

but what you mentioned about small DZ's being eaten by bigger DZ's is oh so true!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix