piisfish 135 #1 November 12, 2006 and release the student ?? www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f8WLIdGKs8 My opinion is that one side is funny, the other is tragically unsafe.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #2 November 12, 2006 Well, a couple of things spring to mind. 1. What were their last dives like? 2. I see no decisive plan from the I to intercept and stabalise the student. (and in the 1st one, I think the 3 connections and no lock was pretty sad.) 3. It seems the student has only been told to arch, and not the "pull one arm in and roll out of bed" recovery from the stable on back position. Students CAN help themselves when given the skills. It appears to be pretty crappy work all round, but there are some students that have more tricks than any instructor ever will. The video never tells the whole story. (By the way, the roll on the second student at 1m41 sec looks staged. Were these eval dives?) tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 122 #3 November 12, 2006 the second vid almost looked staged, it appears the AFF I could have acted a little sooner but as said earlier, the video never tells the whole storyGive one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #4 November 12, 2006 Quote(By the way, the roll on the second student at 1m41 sec looks staged. Were these eval dives?) They both look like up-jumpers to me, whether evaluators or not. The backflying is a bit too stable for a student, and they seem to be trying to stay off their bellies. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #5 November 12, 2006 Quote(By the way, the roll on the second student at 1m41 sec looks staged. Were these eval dives?)these jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyJ 0 #6 November 12, 2006 is that an fxc on the first one? looks like the knob on the left lift web. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #7 November 12, 2006 Quoteis that an fxc on the first one? looks like the knob on the left lift web.it's possible. looks like one indeed.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #8 November 12, 2006 HAHA, seconds 28 to 29 look like a professional freestyle rutine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #9 November 12, 2006 The first guy looked like me after getting recurrent, learning to sitfly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mikhail 0 #10 November 13, 2006 I admit that I have no idea how AFFI's are actually coached, but couldn't this be a "fake student" coach giving the AFFI trainee a hard time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #11 November 13, 2006 QuoteI admit that I have no idea how AFFI's are actually coached, but couldn't this be a "fake student" coach giving the AFFI trainee a hard time? From post no 5... "these jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels... '[/I]It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pocbase 0 #12 November 13, 2006 Quotethese jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels... Are you absolutely dead sure? I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim ) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students...The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #13 November 13, 2006 QuoteAre you absolutely dead sure? I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim ) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students...go read the original on wuza. www.wuza.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16088scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pocbase 0 #14 November 13, 2006 Nooooooooooooo! Ok, you got a paypal account?The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #15 November 13, 2006 please send the 1k Zimbo$ to the Zimbabwean Government in order to help reduce their public debt edited to add : or use the money as you wish for a public use at your DZ (like for a "Fund for Coaching" or something)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pocbase 0 #16 November 13, 2006 No dude, you give them a $, they take your farm ok Mr moderator, I'll stop there with the off-topic wise cracks...The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #17 November 13, 2006 QuoteQuotethese jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels... Are you absolutely dead sure? I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim ) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students... Seeing as though i can't read the french original i'm gonna go on the record here and say that i also think the rolls and flips just look a little too good. Check out the section between 30secs and around 35secs in. There's a point, literally just for a second, where i could swear the "student" stops flipping, looks at the instructor as if to see where he is and get his bearings, then continues to flip and tumble Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pocbase 0 #18 November 13, 2006 I must admit, I am still a bit skeptical, but there are quite a few people posting on the french forum who know the guy. One even swares it's not a fake... Then again, it's just a forum but from what's been written so far it seems credible.The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #19 November 13, 2006 Quoteplease send the 1k Zimbo$ to the Zimbabwean Government in order to help reduce their public debt edited to add : or use the money as you wish for a public use at your DZ (like for a "Fund for Coaching" or something) the DZ could use a toothpick. I think $1000 zims might put a downpayment on one. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Schoenauer 0 #20 November 13, 2006 No I would not let it go so far. Yes, this is sad if these two jumps are the final jumps in their AFF program and the jumps are not staged. If these jumps are real AFF no BS, I am not sure whether to fail the student or the instructor because those two jumps are an example of a student wasting his money on bad instruction. I would recommend finding a better school. Jump #1 Fail the student for: 1.Not regaining stability with in five seconds 2.Not demonstrating heading control 3.Not checking Altimeter enough though out skydive Fire the instructor who: 1.Passing the student from previous levels 2.Not teaching how to recover stability, belly to earth 3.Not teaching heading control Jump #2 Even though it was a better jump, fail the student, for: 1.Not being altitude aware for half the skydive 2.Not regaining stability, belly to earth, with in five seconds 3.Not demonstrating heading control Judging from the student's performance on the second jump the instructor was much better. Although he or she needs to teach the roll out of bed maneuver, what the student does on the video is not an example of it.Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pocbase 0 #21 November 13, 2006 That's why the more it goes the more I think it's B.S. Nobody in that forum has said something about how bad the instructors would have been to let the dude get so far. Just about every post has got a comment on how funny it is and a smiley face. I'm a little confused. Fish can you chime in there (if you want to)? For some reason the administrator still hasn't authorized me and I can't log in. Not that I want to stir, just that I still think this was very possibly staged.The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites icevideot 0 #22 November 13, 2006 hmm, My vote is that it is BS. The student kicks harder on his belly than on his back and the instructor is a little too relaxed and just hanging back watching. I don't know any instructors that would wait to see when and how that is going to excalate into something worse."... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tdog 0 #23 November 13, 2006 The reason I think they are real students.... Look at the deployment on the 2nd student... What experienced skydiver would spin 360 after pulling... It would take a "special type of..." to keep the eval dive that "realistic" on opening.... Even with a docile canopy, why ask for those line twists and hard openings, etc???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FreeflyGoat 0 #24 November 13, 2006 did this student skip levels 3-6? He wouldnt have passed a cat C. Personally I like to give the student some time to try and work things out for themselves but after about 5-10 seconds of those shenanigans I'm gonna make them stable._________________________ goat derka jerka bukkake jihad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites icevideot 0 #25 November 13, 2006 Quote QuoteWhat experienced skydiver would spin 360 after pulling... It would take a "special type of..." to keep the eval dive that "realistic" on opening.... Have you seen the Frankenass video? That video is very entertaining and he is an awesome skydiver but he got a lot of line twists on x-brace canopies. Later I realized he often looks at the ground and does what appear to be knee turn 360's during deployment for the video! Usually he kicks out of them but on one he had to cutaway and the following reserve deployment fractured his neck. Believe it or not skydiving has some of those "special types" and if they were making a staged video I would deploy a student size and style canopy on my back or while in a turn. There is a reason we tell students that pulling is more important than stability. The equipment is very reliable and you still have your reserve if needed. After seeing movies like jacka$$ I can easily believe people to be capable of that."... this ain't a Nerf world." 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Andy9o8 0 #9 November 12, 2006 The first guy looked like me after getting recurrent, learning to sitfly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikhail 0 #10 November 13, 2006 I admit that I have no idea how AFFI's are actually coached, but couldn't this be a "fake student" coach giving the AFFI trainee a hard time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #11 November 13, 2006 QuoteI admit that I have no idea how AFFI's are actually coached, but couldn't this be a "fake student" coach giving the AFFI trainee a hard time? From post no 5... "these jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels... '[/I]It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #12 November 13, 2006 Quotethese jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels... Are you absolutely dead sure? I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim ) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students...The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #13 November 13, 2006 QuoteAre you absolutely dead sure? I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim ) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students...go read the original on wuza. www.wuza.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16088scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #14 November 13, 2006 Nooooooooooooo! Ok, you got a paypal account?The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #15 November 13, 2006 please send the 1k Zimbo$ to the Zimbabwean Government in order to help reduce their public debt edited to add : or use the money as you wish for a public use at your DZ (like for a "Fund for Coaching" or something)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #16 November 13, 2006 No dude, you give them a $, they take your farm ok Mr moderator, I'll stop there with the off-topic wise cracks...The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #17 November 13, 2006 QuoteQuotethese jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels... Are you absolutely dead sure? I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim ) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students... Seeing as though i can't read the french original i'm gonna go on the record here and say that i also think the rolls and flips just look a little too good. Check out the section between 30secs and around 35secs in. There's a point, literally just for a second, where i could swear the "student" stops flipping, looks at the instructor as if to see where he is and get his bearings, then continues to flip and tumble Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #18 November 13, 2006 I must admit, I am still a bit skeptical, but there are quite a few people posting on the french forum who know the guy. One even swares it's not a fake... Then again, it's just a forum but from what's been written so far it seems credible.The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #19 November 13, 2006 Quoteplease send the 1k Zimbo$ to the Zimbabwean Government in order to help reduce their public debt edited to add : or use the money as you wish for a public use at your DZ (like for a "Fund for Coaching" or something) the DZ could use a toothpick. I think $1000 zims might put a downpayment on one. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schoenauer 0 #20 November 13, 2006 No I would not let it go so far. Yes, this is sad if these two jumps are the final jumps in their AFF program and the jumps are not staged. If these jumps are real AFF no BS, I am not sure whether to fail the student or the instructor because those two jumps are an example of a student wasting his money on bad instruction. I would recommend finding a better school. Jump #1 Fail the student for: 1.Not regaining stability with in five seconds 2.Not demonstrating heading control 3.Not checking Altimeter enough though out skydive Fire the instructor who: 1.Passing the student from previous levels 2.Not teaching how to recover stability, belly to earth 3.Not teaching heading control Jump #2 Even though it was a better jump, fail the student, for: 1.Not being altitude aware for half the skydive 2.Not regaining stability, belly to earth, with in five seconds 3.Not demonstrating heading control Judging from the student's performance on the second jump the instructor was much better. Although he or she needs to teach the roll out of bed maneuver, what the student does on the video is not an example of it.Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #21 November 13, 2006 That's why the more it goes the more I think it's B.S. Nobody in that forum has said something about how bad the instructors would have been to let the dude get so far. Just about every post has got a comment on how funny it is and a smiley face. I'm a little confused. Fish can you chime in there (if you want to)? For some reason the administrator still hasn't authorized me and I can't log in. Not that I want to stir, just that I still think this was very possibly staged.The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #22 November 13, 2006 hmm, My vote is that it is BS. The student kicks harder on his belly than on his back and the instructor is a little too relaxed and just hanging back watching. I don't know any instructors that would wait to see when and how that is going to excalate into something worse."... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #23 November 13, 2006 The reason I think they are real students.... Look at the deployment on the 2nd student... What experienced skydiver would spin 360 after pulling... It would take a "special type of..." to keep the eval dive that "realistic" on opening.... Even with a docile canopy, why ask for those line twists and hard openings, etc???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyGoat 0 #24 November 13, 2006 did this student skip levels 3-6? He wouldnt have passed a cat C. Personally I like to give the student some time to try and work things out for themselves but after about 5-10 seconds of those shenanigans I'm gonna make them stable._________________________ goat derka jerka bukkake jihad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #25 November 13, 2006 Quote QuoteWhat experienced skydiver would spin 360 after pulling... It would take a "special type of..." to keep the eval dive that "realistic" on opening.... Have you seen the Frankenass video? That video is very entertaining and he is an awesome skydiver but he got a lot of line twists on x-brace canopies. Later I realized he often looks at the ground and does what appear to be knee turn 360's during deployment for the video! Usually he kicks out of them but on one he had to cutaway and the following reserve deployment fractured his neck. Believe it or not skydiving has some of those "special types" and if they were making a staged video I would deploy a student size and style canopy on my back or while in a turn. There is a reason we tell students that pulling is more important than stability. The equipment is very reliable and you still have your reserve if needed. After seeing movies like jacka$$ I can easily believe people to be capable of that."... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
