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NSEMN8R

Does your DZ have a scale?

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I know most of these fat tandem students are lying.

We turned down a guy who wrote 280 on his waiver about 6 weeks ago. He came back this weekend and wrote 245. The jump went fine, but I still think he's full of shit.

Do you weigh them? If you do, do you have problems with them getting offended?

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We just got a new one, as our old one was sometimes giving faulty readings. We impose an overweight fee of $1/lb for everything over 190, with all of it going to the TI. A couple weeks ago I took a guy who originally weighed in at 206. I took him back to the scale after I geared him up, just to prove a point to manifest. Sure enough, this time he tipped the scale to 239 lbs. We now have an analog scale that thus far seems much more accurate.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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No, we don't have a scale at Pitt Meadows.
But if a student - weighing more than 200 pounds - seems "under height to their weight" they need my (senior Tandem Instructor) approval before they can jump.
My test consists of asking them a few questions about what other sports they play (rugby and power-lifting: good ... couch-surfing: bad) and what type of work (construction: good ... office: bad) they do.

In other words, I am trying to gauge bone density in their legs.

I also ask them to press down on my hand as hard as they can. This is a simple way to test if they will be able to help me flare.

The silliest tandem student was a young woman who had sprained her ankle a week earlier, but was still keen to do tandem jumps with her friends. When I asked her to run up and down a flight of stairs, she just stared at me in disbelief! I suggested that she allow her ankle to heal for a few more weeks before jumping.

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We impose an overweight fee of $1/lb for everything over 190, with all of it going to the TI.



Please help me to understand the reasoning behind this? Most of the DZ's I've worked at don't do this. It's a flat fee; height must be proportionate to weight and combined weight of the TI & Student cannot exceed max recommended weights. Do you charge less if they're under "X" lbs?
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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The silliest tandem student was a young woman who had sprained her ankle a week earlier, but was still keen to do tandem jumps with her friends. When I asked her to run up and down a flight of stairs, she just stared at me in disbelief! I suggested that she allow her ankle to heal for a few more weeks before jumping.



Were there other factors in your decision not to take her, or was it just the ankle?

I took a guy this summer with a sprained ankle, but he was in great shape otherwise. We got him to the plane and brought his crutches out to the landing area. He did fine.

The only test I gave him was to make sure he could lift his legs up which was no problem for him.

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Put differently, we have a weight limit of 190 lbs. It used to be a hard rule, but now 4 of our 10 TIs will consider taking students above that weight on a case by case basis, in consideration of earning extra fee.

I've done most of my work at two DZs, and the other imposed a similar fee of $2/lb for everything over 200, again with all of it going to the TI. The biggest difference between the two dz's is the latter is 2,000 feet lower and has a nice grassy landing area.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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I still don't understand the reason why.



Increased workload for the TI. I work harder with a 200 pound guy than I do with a 100 guy. I have to move them in the plane, sometimes carry them to the door...ect. And there is an increased risk of me getting hurt landing with a guy that is 200 pounds than a guy a 100 pounder.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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we have a scale and use it
we charge $10 for folks over 200 lbs and it goes to the TI

2 weekends ago we did 214 tandems, i did 18 of them, my first was a fat guy at 225 lbs, the last one was a tall guy at 215 lbs., in between were mostly proportional college kids

the heavier folks are usually more work, but i'd rather take an "in shape" 225 lbs than a short fat potato at 190
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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Absolutely. Its dangerous not to have a scale. Every single person gets weighed, equal opportunity, no one feels singled out.

A while back the scale broke and manifest didn't ask AND the guy forgot to write his weight down on the paperwork. I had been doing back to back to backs and didn't see the student prior to doing a harness check and getting into the plane. After a freefall that was quite fast and after I *heard* the canopy speed up after releasing the brakes I asked "so how much do you really weigh?" "245lbs" was the answer. Not too big for some of you TIs out there, except that I weigh 250 without any gear on.

Yeah, that one was slid in. And kept sliding. Then we slid some more. The student was laughing, thought it was great. I bumped a load to catch my breath and smoke a cigerette.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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15 yard penalty for BS.
You're in the risk business.
Don't try and sell me on it's more work so the student should pay more.



Hey, you do not have to agree. But that does not mean you are right and everyone else is wrong.

How big are you? I'm 5'6" and 160 pounds. Taking a 200 pounder is more work for me than a 100 pounder. Thats simple physics. And since I am smaller I often get the bigger students since we will not overload the gear.

Yeah, I am in the risk business, and I know risk levels. It is risker to take a bigger person, sorry if you don't think thats right, but that does not mean you are not wrong.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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15 yard penalty for BS.
You're in the risk business.
Don't try and sell me on it's more work so the student should pay more.

I bet you feel bad fat people gotta pay more for their T-shirts, too. Too bad. I think I should get payed more when everyone swoops the little passengers and I'm stuck taking Blubber Bob again. Now I think 190 is a bit low of a cut off, but somewhere around 210 to 225 is a good place to start charging extra, if only to entice the TM's to take some of the more challenging passengers. I would feel better if I was financially compensated for working harder.

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We have a scale, and we use it. We also have prominently posted signs:

"Due to safety considerations, tandem skydives are not recommended for individuals over 240 lbs or those not in reasonably good physical condition. Various factors will be assessed to determine our ability to take you on a tandem jump. These include but are not limited to: weight, height, body type, and medical history. Our instructors will make the final decision."

This info is on our website, and we also tell customers as they schedule what our weight limit is. Everyone gets weighed discreetly in the corner, out of view. The few times that we've had to turn someone away, they handled it fairly well, as the focus was on their safety.

We do not charge heavy customers more, but our instructors do receive a small bonus for taking anyone 220-240 lbs.


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My DZ does have a scale and when necessary we use it. If they weigh over 220 then it is a dollar per pound with the fee being split equally between the DZ and the TM. The DZ cut covers extra wear & tear on the gear. The TM cut overs extra wear & tear on me :)
DISCLAIMER: I only have 100 tandems BUT even in my limited experience I see the difference in effort required to take my lightest passenger at 100 pounds and my heaviest at 255 pounds.

Lastly, to Keith, with a nickname like BIGUN you must be aware that you are a bit bigger and stronger than most TMs :P
I am 6' 2", weigh about 195 pounds, and work out regularly but taking that 255 pound guy was tough!!
Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

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We impose an overweight fee of $1/lb for everything over 190, with all of it going to the TI.



Please help me to understand the reasoning behind this? Most of the DZ's I've worked at don't do this. It's a flat fee; height must be proportionate to weight and combined weight of the TI & Student cannot exceed max recommended weights. Do you charge less if they're under "X" lbs?



SDA (where you use to TM) charges $1 a pound for every pound over 220#. It goes to the TM. I don't think that is a relatively new policy at SDA. With your exit weight, I doubt you took too many over #220 at SDA anyway. I do remember you taking some pretty close to that though. ;) Maybe Lloyd kept your money. ;)

BTW: We use a digital scale and the readout is stationed where only the manifest girl can read it.

steveOrino

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Hey, you do not have to agree. But that does not mean you are right and everyone else is wrong.



You're right, Ron. I don't agree, disagree, nor understand. Nor, do I think my opinion will change those DZ's policies that are charging the fee. I've seen 5'4" 120lb females take guys my size and not charge a penny more. We keep talking about keeping students in this sport. What kind of taste does it leave someone with if they think they're going to be punished by the pound while their mates all paid a lesser rate?

To me; it's the same as the guy who's your size who had to carry the same size rucksack as me in the Army getting paid more cause his percentage of ruck to weight ratio was seriously disparate to mine? No. He "chose'" to carry it.

I think it's wrong to have a financial sliding scale for tandems based on weight. IMO, if I were 5'2" and 120, I'd either a) acknowledge that I could do the job for the standard rate, or 2) stand down. It's kinda like AFF - Instructors are taught; if you can't slick or weight down enough to stay with your student, then hand them off.

And, I'll leave it with a safety question. 'At what point does one decide they should "stand down" if there is a financial incentive not to do so?'

Just one man's opinion.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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