ZigZagMarquis 8 #51 November 13, 2006 PB, good customer relations withstanding, at some point, I'd hope, you would agree that a person may not be physically suited to go make a tandem skydive... being overweight would be one of those reasons. Now we can argue all day about whether or not a little or a lot overweight is okay or not, but somewhere in there you have to draw the line that its not in the best interest of someone overweight to go make a tandem skydive. OBTW, I'm not a TI, don't want to be, never did, but I do think I feel that a TI is risking more on a skydive then say an AFF instructor by the nature of what a tandem jump is... so (just my 2 cents), but why shouldn't they get an extra little "benifit" for taking someone that marginal when it comes to approaching the weight limit, no matter where you draw the line... OBTW, there are max weight limits for any given tandem system for combined instructor + student weight. You aren't saying its acceptable to exceed that? Consider this too... good, bad, right or wrong, like it or not, wake up and smell the coffee, a "fat tax" is an effective way of weeding out folks that show up at the DZ that are too overweight to jump. Which would be better, to have a thousand pissed off fat people turned away from the DZ or one wider than tall student fall from their tandem harness on opening???.... Skydiving isn't for everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #52 November 13, 2006 ur dzo pays the tm $10 extra, for passengers over 100kg (220lbs),but doesnt charge the customer. he recognises it is more work. i think this is fair to everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #53 November 13, 2006 QuoteWhich would be better, to have a thousand pissed off fat people turned away from the DZ or one wider than tall student fall from their tandem harness on opening???.... Skydiving isn't for everyone. Maybe just my take on what PB wrote but it seems to me that you're agreeing with him and being contradictory in one post. You think some people shouldn't do a tandem because the increased risk is too much but you also think it's a good idea to charge heavier students more to discourage them from jumping? Seems to me that the simple answer there is to refuse them, not charge them more.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #54 November 14, 2006 Seems to me that the simple answer there is to refuse them, not charge them more. *** It's a sliding scare, some you SHOULD refuse, some can safely participate but it IS more work for the Meat Slinger... In part, one of the reason I don't do Tandems anymore, I'm a big guy, I almost ALWAYS got the large 'industrial size' students. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #55 November 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhich would be better, to have a thousand pissed off fat people turned away from the DZ or one wider than tall student fall from their tandem harness on opening???.... Skydiving isn't for everyone. Maybe just my take on what PB wrote but it seems to me that you're agreeing with him and being contradictory in one post. You think some people shouldn't do a tandem because the increased risk is too much but you also think it's a good idea to charge heavier students more to discourage them from jumping? Seems to me that the simple answer there is to refuse them, not charge them more. Yes and No... pick a number at which you would say they should be "refused"... lets call that number 100 Labrys'ans... okay... then if someone shows up at the DZ that weighs 99 Lbrays'ans... they're "in"... but the next person next to them weighs 101 Labrys'ans... they're "out"... seems simple, right??? Well, things aren't that simple. Its called "reality". So... you say if someone weighs more then 90 Labrys'ans... you charge them 1 additional wooden nickel per Labrys'ans for their Tandem jump up to a limit of 110 Labrys'ans. Its a way of fuzzing things up to avoid arguements and at the same time allow for the 20 something year old rugby player that's in shape, but a bit heavy on the Labry'ans scale that you may say, he or she is okay to jump as opposed to the 40 something year old person that has spent the last 20+ years sitting on a couch eating bon-bons that one day decided it was a "good idea" for them to go out and try the most extreme sport possible and that the last 20 years of sitting on a couch eating bon-bons has prepared them for it... ... look, this whole arguement boils down to good judgement. There's not a court in this country (I hope) that will convict you for NOT letting someone make a skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #56 November 14, 2006 QuoteAre you a TI? No I am not. But, I am no stranger to hard work either. My work ethic is to work as hard as I can for the amount of money that I agreed to work for. I don't look for handouts for working harder (not monetary wise anyway). -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #57 November 14, 2006 Quote"Dude, you seem to feel pretty strongly about this. Did you used to be fat?" _________________________________________ No, never. You? _________________________________________ "I don't see any problem with a fat tax. If you're fat, it costs more to make the jump and it's more work for the TI. Why shouldn't you pay your fair share?" _________________________________________ You think any tandem passenger is paying a "fair share" of operating costs? No. Tandem passengers pay well more than their fare share of operating costs so that those who enjoy to skydive regularily can do so at a reasonable rate. Why should anyone have to pay marginally more of an already dispropotianate value? Because the tandem instructors have to work harder.. yeah I get that part, I just don't agree with it. I DO believe you that it is alot harder. I'm not disputing that fact. _______________________________________________ "Is it society's fault they're fat so we should all pay the same? I don't believe everyone should be treated as equals unless they are." _______________________________________________ That statement sais a lot about who you are. If you honestly believe that you should start out more equal than anyone else, I really don't know why I am even bothering with all this... _______________________________________________ "I take most of our heavies. I've worked with some guys that won't take them because of their own size or abilities and some that won't just because they're lazy fucks and they know I'll do it if no one else will. Why should they make the same money as those of us that will put forth the extra effort? (and it DOES take some extra effort!)" ________________________________________________ Well.. here's a thought... If noone else will take them, than it stands to reason that the DZ would lose a lot of money if weren't for you wouldn't it? Maybe the DZ should chip in the extra$5-$10 for you because you are so vastly increasing their market share. You could move yourself one slot up staff list to designated fat person taker. Lucrative position money wise... why not? It must take all you have to stomache doing the job, seems like you feel the same way about fat people that you do about your fellow tandem instructors.. lazy fucks. (Alot of people who weigh 215lbs aren't just fat, I know a few who are in pretty damn good shape.) _________________________________________________ "What if we stopped calling it a "Fat Tax"? Would a "discount for lightweights" be more acceptable? We wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, right?" ________________________________________________ No, and yes. I could'nt give a shit about whether or not YOU hurt someones feelings. I give a shit about people being treated with respect no matter what color, size, shape, age, sex, religion etc. they are. Take the good with bad.. play the cards you are dealt. Personaly I'd rather go out and have a good time with a well mannered fat person than have to deal with an obnoxious self centred skinny person.. no matter how much harder it is. Perhaps I have to do a thousand or so tandems before I start look at people as hunks of meat of different sizes? Is that it? I know tandem instructors with thousands of tandems who take everyone at face value and have a good time with them no matter who they are, and don't bitch and whine about not getting paid extra for working a little harder. And unlike most of you (I am making an assumption here) they are doing 99% of these "fatty" jumps from a C-182 which would make it exponentially harder. I worked harder than everyone else around me at my work. Do I make more money? Yes.. know why? Because when I was working harder than them for the same amount of money I didn't bitch about it, And I was rewarded with a promotion. Now I work a hell of alot less and make a lot more money. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #58 November 14, 2006 QuotePB, good customer relations withstanding, at some point, I'd hope, you would agree that a person may not be physically suited to go make a tandem skydive... being overweight would be one of those reasons. Now we can argue all day about whether or not a little or a lot overweight is okay or not, but somewhere in there you have to draw the line that its not in the best interest of someone overweight to go make a tandem skydive. OBTW, I'm not a TI, don't want to be, never did, but I do think I feel that a TI is risking more on a skydive then say an AFF instructor by the nature of what a tandem jump is... so (just my 2 cents), but why shouldn't they get an extra little "benifit" for taking someone that marginal. If they are taking someone that they think is less safe no matter what extra work or precautions they take, they are making the wrong decision IMO. Physically handicapped people sometimes require more work to bring them to the same level of safety as those who are not physically handicapped. If it is impossible, no matter how hard you try, to get them to that same level of safety, then you should not go. There have been and will be exceptions to this rule (ie. terminally ill patients who understand and willing to take the extra risks coupled with a TI who understands and is willing to take the extra risks. My guess it that these type of people won't charge extra... might even charge less.) when it comes to approaching the weight limit, no matter where you draw the line... Just suck it up and draw the line! Or is it hard because when someone who is over the weight limit is standing in front of you you can hear the cash register ringing in the backround? OBTW, there are max weight limits for any given tandem system for combined instructor + student weight. This is a key point, I am aware of this. You aren't saying its acceptable to exceed that? No I am not Consider this too... good, bad, right or wrong, like it or not, wake up and smell the coffee, a "fat tax" is an effective way of weeding out folks that show up at the DZ that are too overweight to jump. No it isn't, they just have to pay more to jump. I think you missed your coffee today. Unless of cousre you make the fat tax an exhorbinate amount that noone would pay.. some DZ's do it to offer a no waiver jump, which I find quite amusing. Which would be better, to have a thousand pissed off fat people turned away from the DZ or one wider than tall student fall from their tandem harness on opening??? I think you know the answer to that question. My question is this... If someone did fall from the harness, would it matter if they paid an extra $10 to do it? Skydiving isn't for everyone. No it isn't. And those who shouldn't skydive, shouldn't skydive. They shouldn't just have to pay a premium to do so. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #59 November 14, 2006 I don't wholheartedly disagree with the line being fuzzy either.. Fact is.. and it may suck for some who show up, If you have no instructors around except for the 135lb girl who just got her rating last week.. the limits are going to change. If there is a 15kt wind blowing, the limits will change. If you have no instructors around that coupled with the student will be under the maximun weight limit of the tandem system, limits will change. Somebody just needs to grow some balls and say "I'm sorry, you are too large to safely make a tandem skydive." If there are oustanding circumstances, go out of your way to rebook. If you were to tell the student "I'm sorry but you are too large to safely make a tandem skydive, but for $10 we'll overlook that.. how well would that go over?" Not directed at you Twardo... just a convenient post to reply to. Somebody stated above that their DZ pays the instructor extra and does not pass it on to the student.. What DZ is that? I'd like to know, because if I'm in the area.. that's where I'd like to spend MY money. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #60 November 14, 2006 Just looking at the 2006 Student-Orino's... looks like you've had a nice mix.. I wouldn't complain! -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #61 November 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteAre you a TI? No I am not. But, I am no stranger to hard work either. My work ethic is to work as hard as I can for the amount of money that I agreed to work for. I don't look for handouts for working harder (not monetary wise anyway). Thanks, I'm trying to put your great insight about what is fair for TM in perspective. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #62 November 14, 2006 QuoteJust looking at the 2006 Student-Orino's... looks like you've had a nice mix.. I wouldn't complain! Nice mix of what? Heavies and flat bellies? I NEVER complain. Of course, I'm compensated for taking the heavies when I do. Let me explain I'm not in favor of over loading either the equipment's manufactures recommendation or your personal limits. But for those lighter TM than can take heavier students I'm glad they get extra. As most TM know it is the 100#s that will get you into more trouble. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #63 November 14, 2006 Actually I am trying to put what is fair to the customer in perspective. Contrary to popular belief you don't kneed to be one to know one, I got over that in Grade 5. Did I mention that I believe you that is harder work to take a larger student... I just don't care. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #64 November 14, 2006 Would you complain if your dropzone didn't compensate you for heavies? Or would you accept it as right, because that is what you know, and that is what those around you think. If Johnny jumped off a bridge.... oh never mind. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #65 November 14, 2006 QuoteActually I am trying to put what is fair to the customer in perspective. Contrary to popular belief you don't kneed to be one to know one, I got over that in Grade 5. Quote Get your TI rating THEN tell me what you know about being one. QuoteI just don't care. As I said, "I'm trying to put your great insight about what is fair for TM in perspective." steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #66 November 14, 2006 QuoteWould you complain if your dropzone didn't compensate you for heavies? Or would you accept it as right, because that is what you know, and that is what those around you think. Our DZO did not always compensate the TMs for heavies and no one complained. I believe the DZO understood what the extra wear and tear was doing to his gear and figured it was also creating extra wear on the TMs. So recently he added a scale and the heavy tax. Our lighter TMs take the heavies. I weigh #225, so I usually get the lighter ones. No one expected it, demanded it, but everyone here was grateful for the consideration. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #67 November 14, 2006 Well, I guess your opinion simply trumps mine because you are a TI. Tough to argue that. Good for you, you're right. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #68 November 14, 2006 It would have been more gracefull for the DZO to accept the fact that the increased wear and tear comes with an increased market share, therefore he is making more money to offset those costs. If it is that much harder for the TI and he is that giving, then perhaps he should offer you the extra money. Your DZO is not being gracious by giving you extra money. It's not his money. No sweat of his balls. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #69 November 14, 2006 Or hers... -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #70 November 14, 2006 QuoteIt would have been more gracefull for the DZO to accept the fact that the increased wear and tear comes with an increased market share, therefore he is making more money to offset those costs. If it is that much harder for the TI and he is that giving, then perhaps he should offer you the extra money. Your DZO is not being gracious by giving you extra money. It's not his money. No sweat of his balls. You are not a TI or a DZO. By your opinion, it is a pretty good conclusion you have never owned a business either. Yet, you feel your opinion on these matters ... matter. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #71 November 14, 2006 My opinion matters just about as much to you or anybody else as yours does to me or anybody else... it doesn't. That's all you got left? My opinion matters and yours doesn't so shut up? How do you know I have never owned a business? You want to own a business and discriminate against your customers.. let's see how far YOU go. It must be the successfull business model because a DZO gets away with it? I've got some news for you, dropzones can get away with a lot more bullshit tactics than most other regular businesses and still survive becuase of the exclusivity of their market. They appeal only to those who want to skydive. All other things equal, if your dropzone was next door to a dropzone that does not charge a fat tax.. the other business would be more successful, because the extra market share would be there. But regardless of wether or not it is a good business move or not.. it is discriminatory. Unfortunately discrimination is still all to common and acceptable. To charge extra because someone is fat, but still safe enough to jump, is petty. Maybe paying the TI's extra is a good move.. I would probably accept it if I were a TI, if it were coming in good faith from the DZ itself. Like I said, I believe you that it is much harder work, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand it. Companies should pay more for those who work hard.. otherwise noone would ever work hard. But to charge extra to the customer just because they are different is WRONG. Now you can go ahead and have the last word, because I'm done.. I don't think there is any other way I can explain it. And apparantly noone else agrees, because I'm not getting ANY help here. Thanks for the discussion Stevo - keep your stick on the ice buddy.. I look forward to some good advice from you in another thread. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #72 November 14, 2006 Its not that your opinion doesn't matter but it should be seen it the light that it has -- as one who has an opinion about an area they are not involved in. How do I know you have not owned a business? You do not recognize that while YOU may skydive for fun, the DZO has bills to pay. Your suggestion he eat his increased cost illustrates you are not aware of the limitations on the income f the "typical" DZO. Yes, if DZs are discriminating against the fatties they are able to get away with it. IMHO we treat too many skydives as an amusement park ride. That is another debate. BTW, you are not the only one who thinks it is unfair and some of them are TIs. I 'm glad we are able to disagree agreeably. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #73 November 14, 2006 QuoteSomebody just needs to grow some balls and say "I'm sorry, you are too large to safely make a tandem skydive." If there are oustanding circumstances, go out of your way to rebook. OK, you have admitted to not being a TI. So honestly you have no idea the difference between a 150 pound student and a 200 pound student. Or for that matter a 200 vs. 220 pounder. There ARE differences. When a non jumper tells you skydiving is too dangerous, do you listen? Or do you think they do not understand the whole set of issues? Now, one bit of information you seem to be missing or overlooking is this....Just weight alone does not make a *STUDENTS* risk level go up. Their physical makeup means a lot, hell everything. I have taken guys that were 250 pounds. But they were football players. And I have rejected the 200 pound professional couch potato. However, the added weight does effect the *INSTRUCTORS* risk level, pretty much no matter what. Moving a 100 pound student to the door is easy, moving a 200 pound student is not as easy. The wear and tear on an instructor by having to work harder to get the 200+ pounders and the extra effort it takes IMO it is fair to compensate more. Now, before you reply, please do this. This weekend get a Tandem rig and two "students (not TI's)" One over 200 and one about 150. Take all of them to the plane and hook up from the back, and move them to the door. Let us know which you would rather do 10 times in a day. Walk the 15 feet in their rig and THEN give your opinion."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NSEMN8R 0 #74 November 14, 2006 Quote _________________________________________ No, never. You? _________________________________________ Yup. I'm speaking as a Tandem Master and fat dude. And guess what, if it costs more for me to do something than a 135 pounder, then charge me more. I don't have a problem with fat people. I have a problem with your idea that people shouldn't be responsible for their own ass. I'm not going to respond to all this since it's clear we'll never agree, but I will add a couple more things: We are a 182 dz as well. And these 215 pounders you mentioned are considered "medium size" around here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #75 November 15, 2006 QuoteAll other things equal, if your dropzone was next door to a dropzone that does not charge a fat tax.. the other business would be more successful, because the extra market share would be there. Does your argument include staffing considerations? Which of these adjacent DZs do you think will attract more TIs to take all these heavy students, the one that pays extra for them or the one that doesn't? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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steveorino 7 #66 November 14, 2006 QuoteWould you complain if your dropzone didn't compensate you for heavies? Or would you accept it as right, because that is what you know, and that is what those around you think. Our DZO did not always compensate the TMs for heavies and no one complained. I believe the DZO understood what the extra wear and tear was doing to his gear and figured it was also creating extra wear on the TMs. So recently he added a scale and the heavy tax. Our lighter TMs take the heavies. I weigh #225, so I usually get the lighter ones. No one expected it, demanded it, but everyone here was grateful for the consideration. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #67 November 14, 2006 Well, I guess your opinion simply trumps mine because you are a TI. Tough to argue that. Good for you, you're right. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #68 November 14, 2006 It would have been more gracefull for the DZO to accept the fact that the increased wear and tear comes with an increased market share, therefore he is making more money to offset those costs. If it is that much harder for the TI and he is that giving, then perhaps he should offer you the extra money. Your DZO is not being gracious by giving you extra money. It's not his money. No sweat of his balls. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #69 November 14, 2006 Or hers... -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #70 November 14, 2006 QuoteIt would have been more gracefull for the DZO to accept the fact that the increased wear and tear comes with an increased market share, therefore he is making more money to offset those costs. If it is that much harder for the TI and he is that giving, then perhaps he should offer you the extra money. Your DZO is not being gracious by giving you extra money. It's not his money. No sweat of his balls. You are not a TI or a DZO. By your opinion, it is a pretty good conclusion you have never owned a business either. Yet, you feel your opinion on these matters ... matter. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #71 November 14, 2006 My opinion matters just about as much to you or anybody else as yours does to me or anybody else... it doesn't. That's all you got left? My opinion matters and yours doesn't so shut up? How do you know I have never owned a business? You want to own a business and discriminate against your customers.. let's see how far YOU go. It must be the successfull business model because a DZO gets away with it? I've got some news for you, dropzones can get away with a lot more bullshit tactics than most other regular businesses and still survive becuase of the exclusivity of their market. They appeal only to those who want to skydive. All other things equal, if your dropzone was next door to a dropzone that does not charge a fat tax.. the other business would be more successful, because the extra market share would be there. But regardless of wether or not it is a good business move or not.. it is discriminatory. Unfortunately discrimination is still all to common and acceptable. To charge extra because someone is fat, but still safe enough to jump, is petty. Maybe paying the TI's extra is a good move.. I would probably accept it if I were a TI, if it were coming in good faith from the DZ itself. Like I said, I believe you that it is much harder work, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand it. Companies should pay more for those who work hard.. otherwise noone would ever work hard. But to charge extra to the customer just because they are different is WRONG. Now you can go ahead and have the last word, because I'm done.. I don't think there is any other way I can explain it. And apparantly noone else agrees, because I'm not getting ANY help here. Thanks for the discussion Stevo - keep your stick on the ice buddy.. I look forward to some good advice from you in another thread. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #72 November 14, 2006 Its not that your opinion doesn't matter but it should be seen it the light that it has -- as one who has an opinion about an area they are not involved in. How do I know you have not owned a business? You do not recognize that while YOU may skydive for fun, the DZO has bills to pay. Your suggestion he eat his increased cost illustrates you are not aware of the limitations on the income f the "typical" DZO. Yes, if DZs are discriminating against the fatties they are able to get away with it. IMHO we treat too many skydives as an amusement park ride. That is another debate. BTW, you are not the only one who thinks it is unfair and some of them are TIs. I 'm glad we are able to disagree agreeably. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #73 November 14, 2006 QuoteSomebody just needs to grow some balls and say "I'm sorry, you are too large to safely make a tandem skydive." If there are oustanding circumstances, go out of your way to rebook. OK, you have admitted to not being a TI. So honestly you have no idea the difference between a 150 pound student and a 200 pound student. Or for that matter a 200 vs. 220 pounder. There ARE differences. When a non jumper tells you skydiving is too dangerous, do you listen? Or do you think they do not understand the whole set of issues? Now, one bit of information you seem to be missing or overlooking is this....Just weight alone does not make a *STUDENTS* risk level go up. Their physical makeup means a lot, hell everything. I have taken guys that were 250 pounds. But they were football players. And I have rejected the 200 pound professional couch potato. However, the added weight does effect the *INSTRUCTORS* risk level, pretty much no matter what. Moving a 100 pound student to the door is easy, moving a 200 pound student is not as easy. The wear and tear on an instructor by having to work harder to get the 200+ pounders and the extra effort it takes IMO it is fair to compensate more. Now, before you reply, please do this. This weekend get a Tandem rig and two "students (not TI's)" One over 200 and one about 150. Take all of them to the plane and hook up from the back, and move them to the door. Let us know which you would rather do 10 times in a day. Walk the 15 feet in their rig and THEN give your opinion."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #74 November 14, 2006 Quote _________________________________________ No, never. You? _________________________________________ Yup. I'm speaking as a Tandem Master and fat dude. And guess what, if it costs more for me to do something than a 135 pounder, then charge me more. I don't have a problem with fat people. I have a problem with your idea that people shouldn't be responsible for their own ass. I'm not going to respond to all this since it's clear we'll never agree, but I will add a couple more things: We are a 182 dz as well. And these 215 pounders you mentioned are considered "medium size" around here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #75 November 15, 2006 QuoteAll other things equal, if your dropzone was next door to a dropzone that does not charge a fat tax.. the other business would be more successful, because the extra market share would be there. Does your argument include staffing considerations? Which of these adjacent DZs do you think will attract more TIs to take all these heavy students, the one that pays extra for them or the one that doesn't? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
