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Is the AFF rating too easy?

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I went thru AFF CC in 1986 with Paul Sitter as the CD and Dan B-C as one of the evaluators and one of the original AFF I’s that worked with Ken Coleman, but his name escapes me for the moment.
The course was hard, scoring then was much harder than today. You had 4 evals to score 12 points total with 4 points max per dive. A funneled exit resulted in an automatic 2 point reduction, so the max you could get for that jump was a 2. Most courses had a 50% pass/fail rate for years.
I’ve been evaluating since 1988, broke in under Don Yarling. Became a DE in 1993 for our region and have worked with almost every CD out there up to the late 90’s. Now there are so many spread around I haven’t had a chance to work with 2 or 3 of the newer ones.
When the USA changed the scoring format, 6-7 years back it only required a 51% to pass. With input from CD’s and DE’s it was upped to 75% to pass. Heck of a lot better!
The current scoring and evaluation system is good but easier than in the past.

The problems I see in our instructional hierarchy are that someone can get a coach, AFF and tandem rating as fast as they can take a course. There used to be a requirement of 1 year as a “Jumpmaster” handling X number of students and assisting with so many FJC’s before going to an ICC. Thee you were trained to instruct and graded on that ability.
So many people now have very little experience working with students I think they are in over their heads trying to learn all the aspects of student training and gear etc. all at once. USPA should look at putting back some requirements for time spent at one level of instructing before moving up. And no way should someone get a coach, tandem and AFF rating in a year let alone a month like I have seen some do.


The Pre courses today work on some skills but some are best learned hands on. Pre courses are also a newer concept. When we went to the AFFCC no pre course was around, but everyone had several years of jumpmastering, usually instructing although then you could get just an AFF JM rating, that the only difference was you could not teach FJC's. But we all were used to gearing up students, training them for FF maneuvers and jumping with them as they advanced. Plus a lot of us had done “buddy jumps” before AFF came along. So what I’m saying is I believe that we were better prepared overall to take on a new instructional method.


Is AFF too easy now? Not really as far as CC’s go, but like a lot have said here it depends on the CD and the evaluators. That’s why CD’s should used DE’s whenever possible because the DE’s have been appointed by USPA as the top evaluators due to their experience levels. That will help maintain consistent scoring.

As for anyone getting a tandem rating, probably too many do that should not. Personally I know of some that flunked AFF several times got the tandem rating and were dead; as well as their passengers; in less than a year.

Standards need to remain high this is a dangerous sport.
Peace
brew
waving off is to tell people to get out of my landing area

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I did the Coach course, had no trouble with the the Ground part, failed one jump of the air evals, but passed the rest, and I passed the course. Doing actual coach jumps, the Ground part was still easy for me, and the jumps weren't bad at all. In fact, I thought the air evaluation jumps for the coach course were harder than any actual coach jumps I did.

Then I did the AFFI course. It went about the same as the Coach course. I passed the Ground part with no trouble. I failed one evaluation jump, but passed the rest and I passed the course. Doing actual AFF jumps, in my experience, are much, much harder than any of the eval jumps I ever did.

I'm still pretty new at this and have a lot to learn, so it's hard for me to say if the course is too easy or too hard. All I can say at this point is that it seems like, for me, the coach course was harder than the reality of coach jumps, while the AFF course was easier than the reality of AFF jumps.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

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I got my AFF I rating from Don Yarling and it was one tough course. Lots of people failed. Now people come back with a rating and not only do I have to try to keep the student stable on exit, but I have to yank them out from under or off the top of the other instructor because they can't do a good exit them selves. I look at the pics and videos and the student has a better arch then the other instructor. I think the course and course directors need to go back to the way it used to be when Uncle Don ran things.

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I think the course and course directors need to go back to the way it used to be when Uncle Don ran things.



I got mine with Uncle Don as well, he became a good friend and is sorely missed... Yeah, he was tough but it made me beter...
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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Then I did the AFFI course. It went about the same as the Coach course. I passed the Ground part with no trouble. I failed one evaluation jump, but passed the rest and I passed the course. Doing actual AFF jumps, in my experience, are much, much harder than any of the eval jumps I ever did.

I'm still pretty new at this and have a lot to learn, so it's hard for me to say if the course is too easy or too hard. All I can say at this point is that it seems like, for me, the coach course was harder than the reality of coach jumps, while the AFF course was easier than the reality of AFF jumps.



That first part really defined to me how certain AFF I/E's are doing a good job and others aren't.

I also am a new AFF instructor, but have had a very different experience... in addition to the ground training, I did about 15 practice dives to work on the skills I would need for the eval dives. I worked my ASS off on every one of those practice dives, and I learned a shitload. My eval dives were equally brutal, and while I did well on 3 of them, I did fail the 2nd one.

So far I've done about 2 dozen AFF jumps, several of which were release dives... I recognize that that's a very small number and there are lots of things I haven't seen yet, but so far real AFF has been VASTLY easier than the gauntlet I went through in the course. I've had a few that required some effort, but nothing compared to my training.

So to those who say the rating is too easy... I say the rating is fine. It's the I/E that makes it easy or difficult. The guy I took the course from says he usually has a pass rate of 50-65%.
"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

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in reply to "Let's take AFF Instruction off the drop zone. I mean, let's, each of us, make the investment in upgrading what we do into a profession. It would hurt, but that's the investment I'm talking about. "
....................................................................

Perhaps all it would take is the right people forming a company and doing exactly as you have suggested.
Too many DZ's seem to concentrate so heavily on tandems that the AFF side of things withers and dies.
Too many times pro-skydivers seem uninterested in putting in the time to train students via the AFF course.- of course there are many commercial reasons for this . supposedly poor $$ returns for their time/efforts compared to tandem at the top.
*Farming out the gaggles of well prepared students should interest some dollar tight operations.
*Once the public become aware that they will receive a much higher standard of training by highly experienced and interested professionals the 'pain of change' might turn into the joy of excellence.

Pipe dreams ?? some-ones gotta do it B|

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So far I've done about 2 dozen AFF jumps, several of which were release dives... I recognize that that's a very small number and there are lots of things I haven't seen yet, but so far real AFF has been VASTLY easier than the gauntlet I went through in the course. I've had a few that required some effort, but nothing compared to my training.

Don’t ever let your guard down; I had to wait 2 years and a couple hundred AFF jumps before I had to make my first balls to the walls save - there were some interesting situations during the 2 year wait, but when the shit hits the fan really hard and sprays all over you - be ready.
Treat every one like they are going to be the one that makes an eval dive seem easy in comparison. and watch the little people, so far my wildest ride was with a 100# chick!

First release dives are my favorite, anything can happen! Better than night jumps!
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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Treat every one like they are going to be the one that makes an eval dive seem easy in comparison. and watch the little people, so far my wildest ride was with a 100# chick!



I have every intention of doing the things you said, but the reminder never hurts! Thanks, it's good advice that a lot of people would be better off following.

My AFF experience is low, but I've been around the sport since birth and I've seen a LOT of shit. I waited to get the rating until I felt I was truly ready, because I've seen a lot of people who weren't, and some of that video scares the shit out of me. I know if I do this long enough eventually I'll end up with some crazy stories. Again... good advice.:)
"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

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I know I'll sound like an old man when I say this, but that's OK. I'm certainly no youngster anymore. :) Back when I got my rating, 1999, the AFF guys and girls were the top skydivers at the DZ. They were the ones who could be trusted to be there on time, everytime, whether it was an AFF dive or a sunset fun jump. If I recall correctly, there were just 3 AFF course directors at the time, Don Yarhling, Rick Horn, and Billy Rhodes. I took my course with Billy. Aside from law school and the bar exam, that AFF course was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I just barely passed. After I took that course, my thought was that, yeah, it was very hard, and very stressful. But if you could pass that course, you could take my mom on her AFF level 1. I can't say that about today's AFF course. I'm going to try not to hurt people's feelings when I say what I'm about to say. The AFF candidates today can only take the course that is offered to them. If they pass, they get their rating. Congrats. But... The folks I've seen getting their AFF ratings these past few years are no longer the top skydivers at the DZ. I've seen people with very limited experience in the sport, and very limited experience with flat flying, pass the current AFF course with no problems at all. These people cannot take my mom for her AFF level 1. I mean no disrespect to current AFF JM's. They passed the course and got their ratings. But the idea that you had to go through, in effect, a trial by fire, to get your AFF rating has become a thing of the past, and I do not think the sport is better for this development.

By the way, I am sure that most, if not all of these new young AFF JM's will mature nicely into the sport and become outstanding JM's. No JM out there is perfect, and there are certainly a couple of AFF dives on which I wish I'd performed better. I truly hope this post doesn't sound mean-spirited. I have flaws, and I am far from the perfect skydiver. These are just my two cents about the current AFF course.

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Back when I got my rating, 1999, the AFF guys and girls were the top skydivers at the DZ. ...

pass the current AFF course with no problems at all.



Could it be that, in general, skydiving RW skills have increased due to better coaching, wind tunnels, etc? I hear stories where in the "good old days", 10 people docking once in a dive was considered an advanced skill. Now the "youngsters" are doing that on their heads and turning points.

I remember doing a 4 way on my 50th jump with Dan BC's group as a coach in a training camp - and the coach watching the video and saying: "You guys at 50 jumps are turning points quicker than I was at 500... The tunnel has helped you in a way I am jealous about." For my AFF rating I spent 1 hour in the tunnel doing spin stops and roll overs. I had like 100 roll overs and 100 spin stops prior to going to my course, in addition to 15 coached hours for 4way RW skills.

It is not bragging - I paid a lot of money and worked hard for it - but I also see all the most recent candidates locally going to the tunnel. One right now, who is at the course as we speak, did dozens of dives in the sky, and hours in the tunnel, to get ready.

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So, I am looking to go for my AFF rating soon and I want to be properly challenged and really earn the rating.

Anyone have any advice of the best person to go to and why? I have heard good stuff about Bram, have looked into Skydive U.
Not again!

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If you want to be challenged and seriously tested, go with Kip Lohmiller(I think that is how you spell his last name). I've shot video of one of his courses in Lake Wales. If you pass his course, you deserve the rating.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

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RoryJ - I agree with the above post recommending Kip Lohmiller. His website is www.airrageskydiving.com if you want to contact him. I took my AFF course with him in september, and I busted my ass! I won't claim to be some kind of genius or prodigy, but I think it's fair to say I'm one of the most skilled fliers at my DZ (lots of 4-way to thank for that).

Kip will make you work hard, and is also an excellent teacher... if you're struggling he will help you work on your weaknesses, and will tailor the course to fit your needs (it helps if it's a smaller group). If you earn your rating from him, you will be as ready as you can be. Course fees are also very reasonable, especially if you can make it to Start Skydiving to take them.

Good luck!
"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

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I agree with you 100% on all points.

You earn it with Kip.



Sounds like there are a few AFF JMs or Is out there that need a re-test through Kip. :P
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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We had a 90 lb, 5' girl at our DZ who got her rating 4 years ago.

She only took students level 6 and above, or coached. Still, most of those student said they never saw her in freefall. She was awful in her debreifs, VERY critical, often reducing students to tears. While she was here I spent a lot of time drying tears and talking people into staying in the sport.

She didn't last long - moved to CO and last I heard she isn't jumping anymore.

Still: WHY do people like this get AFF ratings????

No offense to any AFF-rated people out there, but I wish the rating was seriously hard, like it used to be.

(my partner got his rating in the 'hard' days, after failing the course once.)

Best,
D

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