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carpenter

Class 1 medical

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Is there anyone out there that has a class 1 medical to do tandems? What do you think about a DZO making TI's get a class 1 medical?



you mean a class 3 medical?

It is a requirement by the FAA to get a class 3 medical when doing tandems, because the instructor is considered the "pilot in charge".

so, it is a requirement.

if you really mean a class 1, I don't think that is really necessary.

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No, I currently have a class 2 medical, and my DZO wants us to get a class 1. I have done some studies on the details of the class 1, and I fall into the parrameters of them, but it's just the fact of taking it too far. Most DZ's I've worked at, if they drug tested the TI's, they would have no staff.

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It is a requirement by the FAA to get a class 3 medical when doing tandems, because the instructor is considered the "pilot in charge".

so, it is a requirement.



Anotherr common misconception. There is no FAR requiring a Parachutist in Command to hold a current medical certificate.

§ 105.45 Use of tandem parachute systems.

(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation using a tandem parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a tandem parachute system, unless—

(1) One of the parachutists using the tandem parachute system is the parachutist in command, and meets the following requirements:

(i) Has a minimum of 3 years of experience in parachuting, and must provide documentation that the parachutist—

(ii) Has completed a minimum of 500 freefall parachute jumps using a ram-air parachute, and

(iii) Holds a master parachute license issued by an organization recognized by the FAA, and

(iv) Has successfully completed a tandem instructor course given by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute system used in the parachute operation or a course acceptable to the Administrator.

(v) Has been certified by the appropriate parachute manufacturer or tandem course provider as being properly trained on the use of the specific tandem parachute system to be used.

(2) The person acting as parachutist in command:

(i) Has briefed the passenger parachutist before boarding the aircraft. The briefing must include the procedures to be used in case of an emergency with the aircraft or after exiting the aircraft, while preparing to exit and exiting the aircraft, freefall, operating the parachute after freefall, landing approach, and landing.

(ii) Uses the harness position prescribed by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute equipment.

(b) No person may make a parachute jump with a tandem parachute system unless—

(1) The main parachute has been packed by a certificated parachute rigger, the parachutist in command making the next jump with that parachute, or a person under the direct supervision of a certificated parachute rigger.

(2) The reserve parachute has been packed by a certificated parachute rigger in accordance with §105.43(b) of this part.

(3) The tandem parachute system contains an operational automatic activation device for the reserve parachute, approved by the manufacturer of that tandem parachute system. The device must—

(i) Have been maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions, and

(ii) Be armed during each tandem parachute operation.

(4) The passenger parachutist is provided with a manual main parachute activation device and instructed on the use of that device, if required by the owner/operator.

(5) The main parachute is equipped with a single-point release system.

(6) The reserve parachute meets Technical Standard Order C23 specifications.

Derek

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Relative Workshop requires a current FAA Class 3 Medical or military equivalent.



Now the debate can start as to who controls the ratings now. The USPA has their TI rating and RWS has theirs. It seems that RWS is trying really hard (as they have been) to get out of the rating business, so does that mean that folks don't have to adhere to their requirements and only to the FARS and USPA (if at a USPA DZ) requirements?

I've heard arguements showing both sides and it still seems clear as mud.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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is that something that was required back when it was experimental then? or was that just the manufacturer.



When it was experimental, then the manufacturers could require anything they wanted too, and they required a FAA medical.

In 2001, the FAR's changed. Once you have been trained and certified by the manufacturer or USPA, there are no FAA currency requirements. My tandem jump earlier this year was 100% legal, even the USPA BOD's came to that conclusion. They also realized that there should be some sort of FAR mandated currency requirements.

Derek

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is that something that was required back when it was experimental then? or was that just the manufacturer.



When it was experimental, then the manufacturers could require anything they wanted too, and they required a FAA medical.

In 2001, the FAR's changed. Once you have been trained and certified by the manufacturer or USPA, there are no FAA currency requirements. My tandem jump earlier this year was 100% legal, even the USPA BOD's came to that conclusion. They also realized that there should be some sort of FAR mandated currency requirements.

Derek



So, your saying I have NO excuse to not do tandems anymore? I HATE YOU!!!!!:P

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It is a requirement by the FAA to get a class 3 medical when doing tandems, because the instructor is considered the "pilot in charge".

so, it is a requirement.



Anotherr common misconception. There is no FAR requiring a Parachutist in Command to hold a current medical certificate.



Correct, but it is a USPA requirement. BSR 2-1-C(2) says "Any skydiver acting as parachutist in command on a tandem jump must possess an FAA Class 3 medical certificate or the equivalent."

A non-USPA instructor doesn't need to follow the BSR, but a USPA rating holder must follow the BSR, no matter what drop zone he is teaching at.

Now to the original question...is it reasonable for a DZ to require a class 1? I guess it is reasonable for a drop zone to require anything it wants, but asking for a class 1 is silly, and an imposition on the staff with no significant safety benefit. I would say "no thanks Mr. DZO," and find someplace else to make a marginal living.
.
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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I have always thought that this whole requirement was a joke. I don't know too many people(TMs) who could actually produce the paperwork to show they have a current Class3 certificate. Not to mention that you could probably disqualify a good portion of those TMs out there who do actually have one with a simple piss test.

Medical requirements for the different classes of certificates.


Is it possible that this particular DZ is requiring a Class 1 in order to try and keep someone from being a TM?
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I don't know too many people(TMs) who could actually produce the paperwork to show they have a current Class3 certificate.



I can, but then again I'm weird...atleast I know this.

My DZ keeps a copy of the medical and rating cards on hand for its instructors. Not a bad idea for the DZ in regards to any possible legal action it might face for the DZ's possible liability.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I have always thought that this whole requirement was a joke. I don't know too many people(TMs) who could actually produce the paperwork to show they have a current Class3 certificate. Not to mention that you could probably disqualify a good portion of those TMs out there who do actually have one with a simple piss test.



Most of the drop zones I know do require a class III certificate, and most instructors have completed the exam. I assume there are a few instructors who slip through the cracks, and a few drop zones that ignore the BSR, but by-and-large I think there is good compliance within the industry.

As for the piss test...The FAA does require a urine test for all classes of medical certificates, but does not include a drug screen as part of that exam. In fact, as I read the FAR's there is no prohibition on a tandem instructor using drugs in his personal life, as long as he is not "under the influence" of alcohol or drugs when making a jump. The specific drug regulation is 105.7, and it applies to all skydivers. Of course a tandem instructor who tests positive for alcohol or drugs after an accident will subject himself and the drop zone to significant civil liability, and if the test results suggest he was under the influence at the time of the jump, there is potential criminal liability.
.
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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In fact, as I read the FAR's there is no prohibition on a tandem instructor using drugs in his personal life, as long as he is not "under the influence" of alcohol or drugs when making a jump.



Is it just me - or do other people feel the TM, AFFI, Pilot, Packers, Riggers, jumping with/working for a student - OWE to the student - to be sober and clean while they are working with the student... The student trusts you with their life. I think they all should be subject to the same drug/medical concerns as a pilot of a commercial airliner. When you are an instructor, you take on a lot of responsibility.

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Is it possible that this particular DZ is requiring a Class 1 in order to try and keep someone from being a TM?




That would be my guess. Especially since class 1 Medicals are only good for 6 months Talk about a pain in the ass. the only ones that need a class 1 as I remember (was a pilot in a former life) are ATP rated commercial pilots... the ones flying the heavy iron like 747's. Other than trying to be a pain in the ass, trying to hold a lowly TI to the same standards as a pilot responsible for 300+ souls at once seems a bit odd.
Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

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The FAA does require a urine test for all classes of medical certificates, but does not include a drug screen as part of that exam.



My point was that even of those TMs who DO have a valid class 3 certificate, it would be easy for a DZ to revoke a TMs elgibility by admininstering a simple piss test as a positive result would be cause to revoke the class3 certificate IAW the medical requirements described in the class 3 medical section below. OR even knowing that the TM does use drugs in their off time. So "personal life" use IS a factor, even if they are not under the influence at the time. From a liability standpoint, a DZ could potentialy be found negligent if one of thier TM pisses hot after an accident. The clincher is the "sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years." statement in the requirements. Which is why some of the bigger DZ's are now administering piss tests to their employees as part of their terms of employement.


from the class 3 certificate requirements


67.307 Mental.

Mental standards for a thirdclass airman medical certificate are:

sections not pertinent have been removed

(3) A bipolar disorder.

(4) Substance dependence, except where there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. As used in this section--

(i) "Substance" includes: alcohol; other sedatives and

hypnotics; anxiolytics; opioids; central nervous system stimulants such as cocaine, amphetamines, and similarly acting sympathomimetics; hallucinogens; phencyclidine or similarly acting arylcyclohexylamines; cannabis; inhalants; and other psychoactive drugs and chemicals; and


(ii) "Substance dependence" means a condition in which a

person is dependent on a substance, other than tobacco or ordinary xanthinecontaining (e.g., caffeine) beverages, as evidenced by--

(A) Increased tolerance;

(B) Manifestation of withdrawal symptoms;

(C) Impaired control of use; or

(D) Continued use despite damage to physical health or

impairment of social, personal, or occupational functioning.

(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:

(1) Use of a substance in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous, if there has been at any other time an instance of the use of a substance also in a situation in which that use was physically hazardous;

(2) A verified positive drug test result conducted under an anti-drug rule or internal program of the U.S. Department of Transportation or any other Administration within the U.S. Department of Transportation; or

(3) Misuse of a substance that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the substance involved, finds--

(i) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or


(ii) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.

(c) No other personality disorder, neurosis, or other mental condition that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds--

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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As for the piss test...The FAA does require a urine test for all classes of medical certificates, but does not include a drug screen as part of that exam.

Exactly. They are checking for high blood sugar indicating diabetes. A drug screen piss test from the FAA, and I've had many, is much more involved.[:/]

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First of all, being a TI, you are responsible for your passenger, but you are in that skydive as well, and I'm making sure that I take good care of myself as well. Secondly, not to demean this in anyway, we are only responsible for 1 person, as opposed to an airline pilot, who is reponsible for 200 plus people. Not to mention the cost of the plane. Alot more is at stake.

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One life or 200, they're priceless. You can always buy a new plane.

Sure, more is at stake. But the cut-off is between 0 and 1, no higher.

(I actually think spectators are worth keeping in one piece too.)

Not a tandem instructor.
Johan.
I am. I think.

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Requiring a current Class 3 medical is reasonable, because that is the minimum standard set by USPA and tandem manufacturers.
However, requiring a Class 1 medical sounds more like local DZ politics.
Perhaps there are too many TIs and the DZO is trying to narrow the field.
Perhaps there is one TI - that he does not want near his tandem students - that cannot pass a Class 1 medical exam.
... subtle politics ...

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Third Class Certificate Requirements

Distant Vision - 20/40 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction.

Near Vision - 20/40 or better in each eye separately (Snellen equivalent), with or without correction, as measured at 16 inches.
Intermediate - No requirement.

Color Vision - Ability to perceive those colors necessary for safe performance of airmen duties.

Hearing - Demonstrate hearing of an average conversational voice in a quiet room, using both ears at 6 feet, with the back turned to the examiner or pass an audiometric test.

Audiology - Audiometric speech discrimination test:
Pure tone audiometric test: Unaided, with thresholds no worse than: (for the worst ear) 35Db at 500Hz, 50Db at 1,000Hz, 50Db at 2,000Hz, 60Db at 3,000Hz

Ear, Nose, Throat - No ear, nose, or throat disease or condition that may reasonably be expected to be manifested by vertigo or a disturbance of speech or equilibrium.

Blood Pressure - While no specific values have been stated in the standards, 155/95 (systolic/diastolic) have been the maximum allowed.

Electro-Cardiogram - Not normally required. Mental - No diagnosis of psychosis, bipolar disorder, or any other severe personality disorder.

Substance Dependence/Substance Abuse - A diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying unless there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. A history of substance abuse within the preceding 2 years is disqualifying. The list of substances includes alcohol and all illegal drugs (marijuana, cocaine, etc.) plus certain prescription drugs such as sedatives, anxiolytics, etc.

Disqualifying Conditions - (1) Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medications; (2) Angina pectoris; (3) Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic of clinically significant; (4) Myocardial infarction; (5) Cardiac valve replacement; (6) Permanent cardiac pacemaker; (7) Heart replacement; (8) Psychosis; (9) Bipolar disease; (10) Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts; (11) Substance dependence; (12) Substance abuse; (13) Epilepsy; (14) Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of cause; and (15) Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause.
NOTE: Waivers for many of these conditions may be obtained through application to the FAA Aeromedical Certification Branch in Oklahoma City.

Class 2 medical certificates are for commercial, non-airline duties as well as private pilot duties. This certificate would be required of crop dusters, charter pilots, corporate pilots, and anyone else who flies commercially. The certificate is good for 1 year for commercial activities and 2 or 3 years for private pilot use.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Class Certificate Requirements - All of the Third Class requirements with the following additions/amendments.

Distant Vision - 20/20 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction.

Intermediate Vision- 20/40 or better in each eye separately (Snellen equivalent), with or without correction at age 50 and over, as measured at 32 inches.

Class 1 faa medical certificates are required for pilots of scheduled airliners. They have the most stringent medical requirements and the certificate is good for 6 months for airliner duties. Like the Class 2 certificate, however, it is good for 1 year for other commercial activities and 2 or 3 years for private pilot duties.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First Class Certificate Requirements - All of the Third and Second Class requirements with the following addition.

Electro-Cardiogram - At age 35 and annually after age 40.


---------

As for the "drug screening" theory... I suppose one could theorize that under the Substance Dependence/Substance Abuse - A diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying ... etc." clause, couldn't or wouldn't a piss test screening for drugs would be one way to "diagnose" substance abuse?

Anyway, haven't there been DZs that have required piss tests screeing for drugs of their jumpmasters? I'm not sure how widly or continually enforced such thigs were even at DZs that did this at least once.

Anyhow, like someone up-thread said, it sounds like the DZO in question saying that his TIs need a Class 1 Medical is trying to "pre-weed" (pun) prospective TIs and, maybe, also pre-build some insulaiton for himself if some litigation happens... as in, hey, I make my TIs have Class 1 Medicals.

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I have always thought that this whole requirement was a joke. I don't know too many people(TMs) who could actually produce the paperwork to show they have a current Class3 certificate.



As I re-read this... its easy. you get a cool 4x6-ish card (or at least you used to) indicating that you passed your exam and when you did so.

so producing said "proof" is easy unless you are a total slacker/tard and lost it (or lied about getting one in the first place if thats what you are eluding to).

I have an old one upstairs in my logbook I can scan in if anyone that doesnt know what they look like would like a peek at one.
Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

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Well anyone can forge just about anything. However that was not what I was eluding to. According to the letter of the law, you are supposed to have "proof" of your Class 1-3 license on your person while operating in that capacity. I highly doubt any TM actually carries a copy of his/her class3 on them, nor are they on file at manifest or on the DZ.For those who actually obtained a Class3 license, I would also wager that not too many have actually renewed it after their initial one expired.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I would also wager that not too many have actually renewed it after their initial one expired.



I can only address what happens at this drop zone and all records are kept in the school. The school keeps track of when the medicals are due and reminds the instructors 30 days prior.
Our pilots medicals are kept on a board in my office, and they also are reminded 30 days prior as well.
If any of them lapse...they won't work until they are current.;)








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