Good Idea? Bad Idea?

[missredd19 0]

Hey Lana,
When I posted that response to you I didn't realize that I was logged into her account on DZ.com. This is actually DK from Crosskeys.~~~
You know how many jumps I have, (5,800), and how much experience I have in skydiving. (11 Years). So you know clearly that it wasn't Missredd 19 who wrote that. It was me, and I am just backing up my friend, cause we all know who's doing the wrong here!!!~
Why are you making it seem like Jacko's the bad guy?? What did he ever do to you?? It sounds like a personal strike to me.
And how come you don't have any of your info posted on here like: jumps, liscense #, yrs. in sport, etc.???
So now you know Missredd 19 is DK. ~~~;^)-------------@

P.S. So if your gonna post something...MAKE SURE IT'S POSITIVE!!!!

[ve1034me 0]

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People at Crosskeys know why he no longer works there.!

Hmm. I love a good mystery! The way this post is worded, there must be some more "dirty laundry" out there. Let me see if I can figure this out: it seems to be well known that this kind of tandem flying was business-as-usual at Crosskeys. Then the handicapped fatality happened. Then Ohio. Tandem was under careful scrutiny this past spring and people had to clean up their acts. Shortly after that, Jacko departs Crosskeys and turns up at another dz and continues his ways.

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Jonno you could be digging jacko a bigger hole by backing him on this forum.

If Crosskeys made the decision as a DZ to stop doing this kind of tandem flying and that resulted in Jacko leaving, this would explain the "bigger hole" comment.

If I've reached the wrong conclusion here, somebody please explain the correct way to "connect the dots". Tnx.

[ve1034me 0]

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I'd rather have an arrogant pilot ...

There's an old saying among pilots:

"There's old pilots, and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots"

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When he was first approached and asked to stop doing it, he did.

In my response to Lana26, I think the opposite may be true. I have a feeling the RD was not the first time he was approached about this.

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What rule was he intentionally violating anyway?

Go read the SB from Strong.

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What if Strong knew about it and didn't care?

That's been asserted before and it makes no sense. Another good mystery!

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You know, if it wasn't for everyone posting on here the way they are, I wouldn't be so intrigued by all this! With the way everybody is writing, it just seems like there are so many hidden stories here and I like playing Sherlock! :)

Yeah, I'm sorry it's at Jacko's expense, but maybe if the truth gets out, people will stop posting innuendo and this whole thing can stop and that is the best thing that can happen right now.
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Let me see what I can figure out here: I already had been curious to see what Jacko looked like as a "compliant" TI so I had gone to realxstream to see more recent videos. There weren't any. I had to go back quite a while. It looks like Jacko stopped doing tandems after Labor Day weekend*. However, it is only very recently that the whining started about this excessive USPA punishment. For people to be this vocal about it after waiting that long doesn't make sense. This kind of reaction has an "immediate" feel to it. What was going on during the time period between? It would only make sense that Strong pulled a rating, too, and perhaps did it first.

I was hoping to find some AFF video jumps between then and this recent discussion. I didn't see any. If there were, then that would mean somebody pulled his tandem rating before the end of September. Does anyone know if Jacko did AFF between Labor day and this apparent recent USPA action? Would the USPA first pull his tandem rating and then everything? From what Jan Meyer posted, it was only the RD action followed by this recent EC action. The only explanation I can think of for the time period between is that Strong probably pulled his rating. Does anyone know if they will tell you if you call and ask?

*There was another tandem video on September 13. It was also the only tandem video that day. There were a lot of non-Jacko tandems between Labor Day weekend and September 13. Maybe that was an emergency fill-in because the dz was understaffed that day? I doubt the day was a typo because looking at the color of the fields and comparing to videos before and after, it looks right.

[ve1034me 0]

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Try not to pool two instructors in the same category. One who has a clean safety record and the other who did not put a harness on correctly

You keep taking things out of context and forgetting basic facts. In both cases the harnesses were not properly installed. Jacko's tandems had the loose laterals.

I'm not even going to bother trying to undo the way you twisted the "upset" versus "skygod"
argument because we'd just go around in circles forever. As Lana26 said, the hole is only
getting deeper.

[jlmiracle 7]

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You know, if it wasn't for everyone posting on here the way they are, I wouldn't be so intrigued by all this! With the way everybody is writing, it just seems like there are so many hidden stories here and I like playing Sherlock! :)

Me too. I thought this thing died weeks ago, but it keeps going and going and new little hidden details come out, stories are changing. Its like CSI.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[vanpilot 0]

It was mr jackson in the library with the candlestick holder....This isn't Cludo....You are right about one thing in your statement. I'll give you a clue...."this kind of tandem flying was business as usual."

[vanpilot 0]

You are right the arguement would be pointless because you do not know the difference between harness fitted right ......and laterals loose, which by the way nothing to do with the harness being fitted on a person. What else you got??

[teason 0]

Here's what I got chief.

Loose lats are less safe than tight.
Jacko prefered to jump with loose lats so that he could do the fancy stuff.

Conclusion Jacko lowered his degree of safety for the sake of some fancy flying.

That is poor judgement.

This has nothing to do with how good a skydiver he is, whether or not he's hurt/killed anyone or if he sends his mother flowers on her birthday!

He jumped less safe than he could've. It was a concious effort. He jumped less safe ... with a student ... than he could've.


I'll type it again.

He jumped less safe than he could've.

Actions have consequences.

Now, I don't give two shits about other people who have done worse and gotten away with it.
I don't give two shits about how great a skydiver he is.
I don't give two shits about what someone on DZ.com said.
I don't give two shits about a letter sent by the USPA.
I don't give two shits about the belief that it's a witch hunt.

When people feel hard done by they often look for someone or something to blame.

Congatulations, you found DZ.com and Jan.

Quit blaming posters
Quit twisting words.

Here is the thrust!

JACKO EXERCISED POOR JUDGEMENT.
JACKO'S ACTIONS HAD CONSEQUENCES.

There it's been said. As plainly as I know how.
The punishment may or may not fit the crime but you ain't swaying anyone over to your side the way you're going about it.

Instead of attacking Jan, maybe you could've spoken to her and learned the best way to appeal.

But you didn't. And all you've done is strengthen people's resolve against Jacko. That's really not fair to him.

You're doing him more harm than good here.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[AFFI 0]

I have been reading this thread with silent interest -

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He jumped less safe than he could've. It was a concious effort. He jumped less safe ... with a student ... than he could've.

What a great fucking post!

[Ron 7]

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Who gives a shit about attitude? I'd rather have an arrogant pilot with no fatalities than a by-the-book, "safety first" one that killed a planeload of people because of his mistake.

Simple, a book is written by looking at accidents. So a guy that really follows the book should have less accidents than a guy that does not.

However, I disagree that attitude has no place. A persons attitude means a ton. If a guy admits he made a mistake and works to fix it, I give him more credit than a guy that yells and cusses.

Now I have no idea what really happend, or which Jacko did....I have been told BOTH by people I tend to trust. So it could be a little of both or something else.

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I do think his TI rating should get yanked for a year or two, but nothing else. Especially considering some of the other punishments (or lack of) that have been handed out.

I would agree that his AFF ticket is a bit much.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AFFI 0]

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I would agree that his AFF ticket is a bit much.

specially since they seem to be handing them out lately

[Allballs 0]

***
I would agree that his AFF ticket is a bit much.

***
Specially since they seem to be handing them out lately.

HA HA thats sooo funny but oh so true.

[vanpilot 0]

Your conclusion of safety did have a consequence. A 7 year revokation. I contested that both with the USPA and on this thread to bring attention to the gossipers out there the truth in the matter. How does backing a friend make me feel hard done by. Who did I blame? I confronted Jan on this thread for her actions here as board member, she responed by showing a course of appeal to take. That is what is happening by those that support the appeal against the revokation. If you don't give a two shits about DZ.com why the post? As for strenghening the resolve against JAcko on this thread i didn't know DZ.com had that kind of influence....powerful media it must be.

[teason 0]

Jacko jumped less safe than he could've. not so much a conclusion as a fact.

What I attempted to assert is that it doesn't matter what anyone has posted, it doesn't change the fact, I'll repeat that word for you; fact, that jacko jumped less safe than he could've.

I really thought that was clear in the context of the post but I guess I was wrong.


Let me boil it down again.

First, Jacko consciously made the choice to jump less safe than he could have, with a student attached to him for the sake of fancy flying.

Your desire to equivocate and obfuscate the facts does not change that, no matter how you load the wording.

Secondly, the point of posting an opposing view is usually done to sway the opinion of those listening (or reading). The approach you are taking here is not having the desired effect.

Your snide shot about the power of this forum contradicts one of your earlier comments about the thread in relation to Jacko loosing his rating.
......Ah crap, now I'm being pulled in.


One more time chief. As simple as I can.

Jacko exercised poor judgment.

That judgment carried consequence.

Posting here is having the opposite effect I you are trying to defend your friend.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[selwyn 0]

i dont write very often, but feel this deserves a comment, i have worked with jacko, and lots of other instructors, and can say quite simply that jacko is an incredible instructor and has helped me become a good instructor, his ratings should not be pulled because of personal feelings of dislike of his character, uspa are wrong to penalise him because of his actions, a warning and a request to operate differently would have been accepted and would have bbeen sufficient..

He is impeccably safe and competant as an instructor, moreover he has not broken any rules, only used 10 thousand jumps worth of experience to make a tandem video look cool,,, those that comment on a lack of safety on his part , i think are mis lead and dont have the ability to do what he has done in a safe and controled fashion.

skydiving should not have skepe goats and i feel he has been punished because of recent fatalities and other peoples mistakes.

[Ron 7]

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his ratings should not be pulled because of personal feelings of dislike of his character

who said it was due to his character?

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a warning and a request to operate differently would have been accepted and would have bbeen sufficient..

Some said he was asked and he ignored them....Have any info on that?

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He is impeccably safe and competant as an instructor

What he was doing was not safe....The tandem maker agreed, the USPA agreed.

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that comment on a lack of safety on his part , i think are mis lead and dont have the ability to do what he has done in a safe and controled fashion.

Well call Ted Strong as not knowing what is safe with a tandem...And add Bill Booth, and several tandem Examiners.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[selwyn 0]

In my response to Lana26, I think the opposite may be true. I have a feeling the RD was not the first time he was approached about this.



======
You know, if it wasn't for everyone posting on here the way they are, I wouldn't be so intrigued by all this! With the way everybody is writing, it just seems like there are so many hidden stories here and I like playing Sherlock! :)

Yeah, I'm sorry it's at Jacko's expense, but maybe if the truth gets out, people will stop posting innuendo and this whole thing can stop and that is the best thing that can happen right now.
======

Let me see what I can figure out here: I already had been curious to see what Jacko looked like as a "compliant" TI so I had gone to realxstream to see more recent videos. There weren't any. I had to go back quite a while. It looks like Jacko stopped doing tandems after Labor Day weekend*. However, it is only very recently that the whining started about this excessive USPA punishment. For people to be this vocal about it after waiting that long doesn't make sense. This kind of reaction has an "immediate" feel to it. What was going on during the time period between? It would only make sense that Strong pulled a rating, too, and perhaps did it first.

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i think you should stop speculating and creating your own story of what you think happened in the past and why he left other another drop zone, writing some scenario and infecting other people's minds with your silly BS. you don't know then leave it alone.
if you like mysteries so much read a f'n book.
also there seems to be so much interest after "waiting so long" while this has been going on for awhile because there are actually plenty of people out here who don't frequent dropzone.com but have only recently heard through word of mouth and just got online to find out the info.
after reading 12 pages of bullshit i think it's absolutely ridiculous.
whatever he did with his laterals, and whether or not it "could have been safer" it has NOTHING to do with not being allowed to fun jump for seven years. or have his AFF rating taken away as well.
and by the way, just for the record, the students LOVE their videos, not that it matters.
i think this thread sucks.
this is melody by the way, not selwyn this time, just so at least YOU know who I am

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[selwyn 0]

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People at Crosskeys know why he no longer works there.!

Hmm. I love a good mystery! The way this post is worded, there must be some more "dirty laundry" out there. Let me see if I can figure this out: it seems to be well known that this kind of tandem flying was business-as-usual at Crosskeys. Then the handicapped fatality happened. Then Ohio. Tandem was under careful scrutiny this past spring and people had to clean up their acts. Shortly after that, Jacko departs Crosskeys and turns up at another dz and continues his ways.

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Jonno you could be digging jacko a bigger hole by backing him on this forum.

If Crosskeys made the decision as a DZ to stop doing this kind of tandem flying and that resulted in Jacko leaving, this would explain the "bigger hole" comment.

If I've reached the wrong conclusion here, somebody please explain the correct way to "connect the dots". Tnx.

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this is actually what i was referring to-
why don't you try Not connecting so many dots and stick to the facts....... melody

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[feuergnom 22]

shit, i thought i was outta here for good but this:

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he has not broken any rules

is BS. if you do not think that ignoring a mandatory SB is a violation of rules you are bullshitting yourself



edit: I read you are a TI as well? so why don't you get the oldest vector without all the SB's and updates and take some students for a ride? still don't think that you are violating rules?

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[selwyn 0]

that would be really silly, now wouldn't it...

as an instructor i have had issues on deployment with short fat people in strong and sigma harnesses, mainly when you have someone who is 230 lbs and 5ft tall, and believe that these people with abnormal amounts of fat slip through the ooze through the butt strap and leg straps on deployment due to insufficient muscle mass to retain the harness position, almost as if you were strapping jello in a jumpsuit to you. I believe that an addition to the harness vertical webbing around the groin would prevent this, i know there are some dangers of having loose lateral connections, but to persecute one instructor to this extent when there is video of hundreds of instructors doing far worse is wrong.

This is my point : "be consistent, with punishment accross the country "

it feels like the police giving dui's at xmas and then sayin fuck it for the rest of the year cos theyve reached a quota

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[Ron 7]

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This is my point : "be consistent, with punishment accross the country "

From your other posts you seem to think that Jacko had enough skill to pull it off and that everyone that disagreed was wrong?

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He is impeccably safe and competant as an instructor (Some would disagree) , moreover he has not broken any rules (Wrong Peep the SB's), only used 10 thousand jumps worth of experience to make a tandem video look cool (But not for the student, for himself),,, those that comment on a lack of safety on his part , i think are mis lead and dont have the ability to do what he has done in a safe and controled fashion. (Nor should they)

So do you admit he was wrong? Or do you still stick to the "Jacko rules and you guys drool" defense?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[selwyn 0]

I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime . i think that he has continued to use techniques that have worked for him for 1000's of tandems, and he was wrong to have not followed the guide to the letter. however he again i repeat ,,, did not desrve this punishment. The flying he does with tandems is for the customer , as i have seen personally hundreds of happy students who think there video is the greatest thing ever, and i have also seen students who had the standard video look at their friends video (jacko as tm) and be overwhelmed with the possibility and capability of human flight.

i don't agree with the jacko rules and others drool idea, i do believe that we have lost a great skydiver and awesome instructor, who is responsible for hundreds definately, maybe 1000's new jumpers joining the uspa and contributing to our sport.

you can reply to this but i have no further comments, we will agree to disagree.

have fun dont die.

[jlmiracle 7]

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did not desrve this punishment

What punishment do YOU think he deserves.

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The flying he does with tandems is for the customer ,

He uses them as a prop in the Jacko show. Very unprofessional and uncool.

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as i have seen personally hundreds of happy students who think there video is the greatest thing ever

They don't know better.

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and i have also seen students who had the standard video look at their friends video (jacko as tm) and be overwhelmed with the possibility and capability of human flight.

All the capabilities of human flight can be displayed without putting the customer in danger. Show them freeflying. Much more impressive than the Jacko show.

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awesome instructor, who is responsible for hundreds definately, maybe 1000's new jumpers joining the uspa

IIf this is not total BS please show me 100 of them.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Fast 0]

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The flying he does with tandems is for the customer , as i have seen personally hundreds of happy students who think there video is the greatest thing ever, and i have also seen students who had the standard video look at their friends video (jacko as tm) and be overwhelmed with the possibility and capability of human flight.

You're right. That might happen when you have one person doing crap like he was. At my DZ all the tandem students are happy with thier videos because its about them and the tandem master sits in the background where they belong. If you want to show a student what is capable put a flashy leader/trailer on your videos and show them what they can aspire for, don't take risks with thier life. If someone told the passangers what the risks involved with that kind of crap are they would think twice. Good for us most wuffos are stupid and just want a carnival ride.

If my TM did that crap when I made my first jump and I later found out how big of a risk he had taken I would lose all respect for him. It's not fair to the students and its not for them no matter how much you want it to be. The only reason they might think its cooler is because they are ignorant to the risk involved. That fucks it up for every other tandem master.

I have seen a tandem students legs kick all the way around to be between the risers on a hard opening before and that was with tight latterals. Who knows what would have happend if they were lose? (Snapped neck? injured back? fall out?)

Tandems are a representation of our sport to the outside world, it's not the time or place to take risks because that's not what we want the community and government to think of us.


As for my comments on what has been said to have happened to him. No ratings sounds like a good thing to me. He has shown that he doens't have the judgement to handle students/passangers. Taking away his membership/ability to jump is a bit overboard to me.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Ron 7]

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I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime

I think the 7 years and AFF rating was a bit much. But he should lose his TI.

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The flying he does with tandems is for the customer

BS.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334