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MikeFB2764

Good Idea? Bad Idea?

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Anyone (including CSC regulars) stop to think that not only was this guy putting himself and his student at risk, but also putting the entire dropzone's business at risk for his own self amusement? What would happen if he went in doing one of these "stunts"? We have waivers and lawyers but at the end of the day, the media gets their hands on a video of this stuff, and the entire dropzone is under the microscope. He can have an attitude of compliance, and stop after he got caught, but he still selfishly put other people's well being (physical, financial, having a home dz) in jeopardy. I'm sorry but if you are stupid enough to do this (as if the tandem business needs another black eye) then you deserve anything the USPA dishes out. The FAA would be even harder on something resembling this.

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WHY is this thread is allowed to continue?

Just because the person in question is not posting here on dz.com, does that make it OK for some that are posting to call him stupid? This is ridiculous.

Add my name to the list whom support Jacko as a TM. My name isn't much anymore but then again, neither are half of yours.

Seriously - WTF?

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

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Tune in pal, this discussion is about a TI'S action and the judgement laid down by USPA. The policing by the DZ and its members produced this thread. Let me fill you in on the highlights so you have the facts. A complainant saw a video and reported it to a Regional Director. The RD contacted the TI and requested ceasation of the activity, included was a letter describing a " slap on hand with consequence, The TI complied. The complainant appealled the "punishment as not sevear enough," and requested USPA to reopen and re-dicipline. Here are the contents of a letter drafted to Mr Jackson by the USPA.......

"EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY YOU SHALL RETURN THE USPA ISSUED TANDEM RATING, AFF INSTRUCTOR RATING AND ARE HEREBY SUSPENDED FROM MEMEBERSHIP TO THE ASSOCIATION FOR NO LESS THAN 7 YEARS,"

Do you think that is sevear enough a punishment. Wake up pal, this is not only about a TI's action on video but of a gross improper use of dicipline on a compliant TI.

For all of you out there that do not agree with this verdict write Jan Myers

[email protected]

or the USPA Executive Committee Board of Directors to overturn this decision. My letter is in.

For your information the FAA collaborates with a group known as the National Transport and Safety Board, who collects and processes evidence of accidents and incidents. They are not impartial, biased or swayed by DZ GOssip. The findings are kept CONFIDENTIAL and based purely on FACT as is their conclusion. I hope for the sports sake YOU are not a jury member.

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"EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY YOU SHALL RETURN THE USPA ISSUED TANDEM RATING, AFF INSTRUCTOR RATING AND ARE HEREBY SUSPENDED FROM MEMEBERSHIP TO THE ASSOCIATION FOR NO LESS THAN 7 YEARS,"



Thank you Jacko, for finally posting the actual info. Now we can put those rumors to rest!

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For all of you out there that do not agree with this verdict write Jan Myers. My letter is in.



I don't think you have a perspective on the sport that is appropriate for working with students, so I agree with the instructional ratings. However, I do not necessarily agree with the revocation of your USPA membership. Maybe you should join a freefly team and get sponsored because you do have amazing flying skills and that would be a much better place for you to push the envelope and help evolve the sport!

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Tune in pal



You keep moving this thread off topic. Freefallin14 brought it back on topic.

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The FAA are already involved thanks to RD



What does the FAA have to do with anything here? Have they contacted you? AFAIK, the FAA has allowed USPA to police itself. They only investigate when there is an incident. Fortunately, we have this thread instead of an incident.

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First off I am not Jacko. 2nd I worked in the sport for 13 years so I think I have an Idea of what working with students is about. Do you even have an idea about what this thread addresses. Here is an example of fair justice, another TI is in the process of getting his rating back after a student dropped from his harness. Maybe he should go freefly and get a sponsorship like you say!! The FAA allow the USPA to police themselves under.......DUH FAR part 105. Guess where that comes from. I'll give you a hint it starts with F--.

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Here is an example of fair justice, another TI is in the process of getting his rating back after a student dropped from his harness.



Maybe someday Jacko can ask to get his back someday. He deserves to be punished some way for some period of time.

Its funny how you accused Jan of using dz.com to rally the jumpers against jacko but you are trying to do the same to rally for him. If you found it sooo wrong then why are you doing it?

I agree with the go get on a freefly team comment. Obviously skydiving isn't exciting enough for this guy.


J
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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if 7 years was the sentence i think uspa needs to get hit upside the head. i didn't like what happened and spoke my peace on that but now we need to talk about what is good for a disiplinary action. how can you have a student die and serve less time? that's like giving a murderer a speeding ticket and a speeder a life sentance.( just my thoughts )
not to mention it should be only directed to the ti rating. he didn't do anything wrong with an aff, flying a plane or jumping by himself so those areas should be excluded

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it should be only directed to the ti rating. he didn't do anything wrong with an aff, flying a plane or jumping by himself so those areas should be excluded



My thoughts also.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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he RD contacted the TI and requested ceasation of the activity, included was a letter describing a " slap on hand with consequence, The TI complied. The complainant appealled the "punishment as not sevear enough," and requested USPA to reopen and re-dicipline.



FYI: The appeal was REJECTED by the Chair of the Executive Comm - twice.
This was done even though it is spelled out in the Gov. Manual that a complainant can ask the Executive Comm. to reconsider the RD actions. The appeal was never discussed by the full Executive Comm. The system of checks and balances inside USPA is not working.

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Here are the contents of a letter drafted to Mr Jackson by the USPA.......

"EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY YOU SHALL RETURN THE USPA ISSUED TANDEM RATING, AFF INSTRUCTOR RATING AND ARE HEREBY SUSPENDED FROM MEMEBERSHIP TO THE ASSOCIATION FOR NO LESS THAN 7 YEARS,"



That's an interesting way of wording it. What happens if he does not return the rating?
Just curious, did the letter have all caps, or was that something you added?
(We don't get copies of these letters.)

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Do you think that is sevear enough a punishment. Wake up pal, this is not only about a TI's action on video but of a gross improper use of dicipline on a compliant TI.

For all of you out there that do not agree with this verdict write Jan Myers Meyer

[email protected]

or the USPA Executive Committee Board of Directors to overturn this decision. My letter is in.



Just another FYI: If you do not specifically mention that your letter should be forwarded to the FB, it won't go any further than the person you sent it to. Likewise, if you ask that only the person you send it to see it, they will not forward it.

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The FAA are already involved thanks to RD. (from an earlier post)



This is not true. The RD did not contact the FAA about this matter.


.
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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

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Whats good for the goose is good for the gander dearie! I am not a board member that is the difference. I am standing up for the rights if a TI who was incorrectly diciplined. Who knows your rating may be next who will stand up for you if not your friends.

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Jan,
Then why was a letter issued and signed by the board dir. stating just that? The caps was my idea i thought it would look cool...not really it emphasizes the contents of the letter which are not a quote to add but read from the horses mouth. Try not to dilute this arguement between you and me. The letter reads what the letter reads as stated. You may not have a copy from USPA but iu am sure you will get one if you request. The letters may not go far but the attention will jast as yours did. And FYI the FAA are involved

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Jan,
Then why was a letter issued and signed by the board dir. stating just that? The caps was my idea i thought it would look cool...not really it emphasizes the contents of the letter which are not a quote to add but read from the horses mouth. Try not to dilute this arguement between you and me. The letter reads what the letter reads as stated. You may not have a copy from USPA but iu am sure you will get one if you request. The letters may not go far but the attention will jast as yours did. And FYI the FAA are involved



I think you need to go recheck your facts.
The letter was not sent by the FB.
Your 'quote' is not a quote from the letter, by your own admission.
The RD did NOT contact the FAA about this matter.
You have incomplete information and are jumping to (incorrect) conclusions.

.
.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

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Balls, here is the quote directly from the letter. Shall I put it in caps....


As far as the wording from USPA.....The letter was from Glenn Bangs President USPA and Cc: Chris Needles,USPA Executive Director
Gary Peek Central Regional Director

QUOTE "your USPA membership has been revoked for a period of seven years by the executive committee."


QUOTE "Please return your membership card and rating documents to the associations main office in the enclosed self addressed and stamped envelope

I did not "quote" because I use discretion on an open forum have you? You are right the RD did not contact the FAA but that is about, it they are still invovled. One minute you disagree with the decision made by the committee then the other minute it seems you do. Read it here for all to see. Question is what will be done about it or will you and others just let what happened happen. I will not.

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First off I am not Jacko.



So he gave you a copy of the letter and asked you to post it like you did in post #265. So you are acting as his agent. As far as I'm concerned, you are interchangeable. Or did Jacko stick the letter on the dropzone bulletin board or something like that for everyone to read?

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another TI is in the process of getting his rating back after a student dropped from his harness



Not a relevant comparison. Why? The attitudes of the two parties:

As for the other TI, I think you are referring to the case of the handicapped student falling out. If I remember right, this TI was very upset about what happened, didn't intend to violate any rules, and voluntarily surrendered his Tandem rating before receiving disciplinary action. If somebody has the detail on this one, please correct anything wrong here. Tnx.

Meanwhile, Jacko went down apparently kicking and screaming all the way because he was such a skygod that the manufacturer's recommendations didn't apply to him. The only time Jacko became a compliant TI was when he was forced to be so. Even after the earlier incidents and the SB from Strong about the laterals, Jacko just ignored it and kept doing his thing.

I think the evidence of Jacko's attitude is further back in this thread if you read between the lines and look at the way he is in the videos. I'll bet there's a lot more we don't know about, and if we did, maybe we'd better understand why the USPA did what it did. Did Jacko have any conversations with any of the EC before they rendered a decision?

Based on the calendar of when Jacko first appeared on video, he showed up in Hinckley in the middle of the season. If this guy was so great and wonderful and loved, why the move from Crosskeys to Hinckley, and during high season? Again, what info aren't we getting here?

Like I said earlier, all I really think that is needed is for Jacko to be prevented from working with students. This sport is full of egos, and if tempers flared causing the termination of USPA membership, maybe after everyone cools down he'll at least get that back.

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Unless Jan Meyer has no objection or can provide some better information on how to contact the executive committee to overule this dicipline write to this address and ASK that it be Cc to all Executive Members.

[email protected]




Mr. Jackson should also request a review of the action in writing and become familiar with Section 1-6 of the Governance Manual. It is available online.
A review will occur at the next BOD meeting by the FULL BOARD as it does for all Interim Motions.
It would behoove you and Mr. Jackson if you ask that the entire FB be copied on your correspondence. The only group that can overrule or change what the Executive Comm. did is the FB. You need support from the rest of the BOD.

This case I think falls into a Goldilocks story.
At first the penalty was to 'soft'.
Then it was too 'hard'.
At the next BOD meeting it may become 'just right'.

I also suggest that Mr. Jackson contact his RD and anyone else on the BOD for clarification on the process, how it works and how it does not work. Every BOD member's contact info is listed in Parachutist each month.

.
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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

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This letter goes out to everybody out there that has no business posting on this forum!!! #1. Almost everyone on this forum doesn't even know of Jacko's experiense and qualifications while being an Instructor.
#2. Jacko has a crystal clear record with all his students. (Tandem and AFF). USPA is being way too harsh on Jacko, they should definately over-turn their decision they've made.
Why on earth would they take away his AFF rating & USPA membership??
That has nothing to do with tandems!!!
There are soo many TI's that should not be doing tandems out there!!!
Jacko is definately one of the best TI's I've ever seen!!!!

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Not a relevant comparison. Why? The attitudes of the two parties:



Who gives a shit about attitude? I'd rather have an arrogant pilot with no fatalities than a by-the-book, "safety first" one that killed a planeload of people because of his mistake.

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Meanwhile, Jacko went down apparently kicking and screaming all the way...


Negative. When he was first approached and asked to stop doing it, he did. What rule was he intentionally violating anyway? What if Strong knew about it and didn't care?

I think the punishment was way over the top. Did all the clamoring here on dizzie-dot-com have something to do with it? Maybe. If it did, I think that's wrong. It's a pretty small portion of the skydiving community represented here - it just happens to be the loudest. I do think his TI rating should get yanked for a year or two, but nothing else. Especially considering some of the other punishments (or lack of) that have been handed out.
it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

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Sorry to dissappoint lana, i know why jacko left xkeys. Had nothing to do with skydiving on the contrary. Whatever happened to having a friends back? The story jackos friends are not being told is on the last 11pages an 16440 hits. They just are not speaking out for fear of the same reprisal.

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Try not too jump to too many conclusions. No he did not give me a letter. He read it to me as would a friend to friend. I jumped on this thread on my own free will. You are PA removed by slotperfect if you think I am his agent. I am his friend and I defend his case of revokation. Hopefully you have friends who may do the same for you one day. His reasons for leaving Xkeys had nothing to do with skydiving., irrelevant comparison you say. Try not to pool two instructors in the same category. One who has a clean safety record and the other who did not put a harness on correctly. The point on that is one is getting his rating back Quote"because he felt upset about it"and another is having everything revoked because he is Quote "such a skygod" as you say. Lets make your statement SOP for the USPA "when tempers cool you can get your rating back." We'll all claim social security before that happens. Stay on point my arguement was the issuance of dicipline Period.

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Unless Jan Meyer has no objection or can provide some better information on how to contact the executive committee to overule this dicipline write to this address and ASK that it be Cc to all Executive Members.

[email protected]



Or maybe Jako could plead his case in person at the next board meeting. In fact, you could all show up. I don't want to hear about it costs money to go, blah blah blah. When I wanted something from the BOD, I saved my money to go to the BOD meeting to state my case in person. Showing up can make a difference and if he is as wonderful as you say he is, then maybe he can get his membership and AFF rating back. He shouldn't ask for his TM rating back - at least not for a few years.

Jako's TM ratings needs to be pulled. Maybe taking the AFF and membership away was a little over the top, but his actions, to some, were WAY over the top. Because he had been doing this so long he has shown consistant lack of good judgement. No one cares how nice you are when your actions are a danger to others.

If you go to the USPA Website, it will give you the information you need for the executive board.


j
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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