GreenMachine 0 #1 July 17, 2006 Blue Skies Tandem Masters, I'm a newer tandem instructor with less than 100 paid tandems. This weekend I had my first puker (under canopy). Yeah, I know BEER. Anyways, a group of about 6 guys and 4 gals show up to jump with some friends/family and a pretty impressive video camera. They tell me they are part of an extreme team that does stunts on motorcycles. My first passenger out of the group had his own jumpsuit, had never jumped, and was kind of nervous. While I am training and harnessing him his buddy is shooting some ground footage (he also paid for a DZ made DVD). While geeking for his friend's video he tells me he really wants the E ticket ride. So 4 of us load up in the cessna (passenger, tandem master, camera flyer, and an up jumper), at 5ish a guy jumps out, and the passenger's eyes got about the size of a pilot chute. At 10 the three of us get out, freefall is totally normal. Once open I get him comfortable in the harness, practice the landing flair a few times, and get us right over the LZ. I then proceed to do two spirals....maybe a 540 right and a 360 left, nothing too major, especially for a guy on an 'extreme' team asking for a wild ride. We level out and I ask him what he thought...he says that is enough. I say okay, so I then point out a few land marks while we float. 1,000 feet later he is yakking. Thank God he was wearing his own suit and puked straight down on his crotch. Of course I told him it was no big deal, reminded him to do deep breathing, reaffirmed that we were a-okay, and would be on the ground in about 90 seconds. The passenger was apologetic and I told him several times not worry about it. He also tipped me for getting some on my leg. Funniest part was, all of his buddies laughed, but each of them later said quietly that they did not want to do spirals. Just thought I would share a story my Saturday.Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 July 17, 2006 Passenger harness adjustment comes into play a LOT into this. Getting the harness setup for the student once under a good canopy is very important. Loosing the chest strap a bit, getting their legstraps setup so they're sitting more then hanging in the harness is important too. Something I do that helps a lot is that I give the student the toggles to help fly around. Even if I'm not going to let that student fly the landing, it helps the students with motion sickness problems. Atleast it seems like it does. With that said, I've still had a few people get sick. Luckily only one while still in the air, under canopy. The rest were those who drank the night before then didn't eat breakfast due to not wanting to get sick. They threw up on the ground after landing. THEN told the truth about not having had anything to eat.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #3 July 17, 2006 My ratio is about one in a hundred so far, all under canopy. Top tip, carry an airline sick bag (pick up a load the next time you fly commercially) either in the student harness knife pocket or about your person somewhere. So far, I have managed to get the sick bag out in time and have avoided getting any vomit on me. Had one quite recently who was doing the sort of hiccuping/covering the mouth action. Offered her the sick bag the first two times she did it, which she refused as she said she'd be alright, after the third time, I forced her to take it. The forth time she used it!Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #4 July 17, 2006 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=617868;search_string=tandem%20poll;#617868 I now carry a couple of those bathroom sized trash bags (already opened and balled up again) in my jumpsuit pocket.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toronto_bill 0 #5 July 17, 2006 I have had 2 passengers sick. I have 200+ tandems. I am still figuring out how much I play a part. At a relatively low number of jumps, I haven't got a good idea of how much of these situations is bad luck....or bad 'instructing'. I feel I am still very cautious where safety and passenger comfort and enjoyment are concerned. I have heard the popular reason " leg straps too tight", but I find this problematic, as a loose strap is a bigger risk than having some extra laundry to do. I have begun to assess my passengers more closely, looking for the tell tale signs. Hungover or had some beers ? My next step is to find the perfect spot for a Glad Kitchen catcher pocket. Right beside the hookknife on the harness? So far nothing definite. Lastly, I do feel Murphy's law applies. Sometimes you will just draw the short straw. Bill P.S. The last passenger who was sick was female and about 55. The mess looked like 2 pieces of cherry pie all down her chest. It almost looked like she had been shot in the chest. A visual I will never forget. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #6 July 17, 2006 Tom, I have passed the torch down to you young green grasshopper. You know I was getting all the pukers but I told manifest to let you have them from now on. Now that you have few tandems under your belt I know you can handle it. Once you hit the 100 tandem mark I will let you have all the fainting passengers also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #7 July 17, 2006 1 in just over 600 tandems. It was nasty. I could tell it was going to happen. I could feel him start convulsing against me. I just started to ask if he was ok when he exploded. My mouth was open. Some got in. And on my lips and face. My goggles were covered. I had a protec on and some of my hair must have been sticking out the holes on top becuase it was all wet. If I had it to do over again I think I'd go into deep brakes and maybe some of it would go straight down instead of blowing back in my face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efs4ever 3 #8 July 17, 2006 I know they're getting woozy when they suddenly get quiet. Usually at the last thousand feet. Just lazy turns will do it. _____________________-Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #9 July 17, 2006 I had a guy last month. I did a series of canopy spirals. On the first one he goes "that was cool. do it again.". So, I did another one. He goes "Oh man that was wild, do another." So I do one in the opposite direction. He goes: "Yeah that was co........ urrrrrrppppp!!!!" All over my just washed gear. But he was cool and tipped $20.00. Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenMachine 0 #10 July 18, 2006 Thanks Jeff, appreciate it So what kind of beer do you want Saturday...oh, never mind, you seldom stay late enough to drink it Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spud 0 #11 July 18, 2006 I always make the passenger comfortable in the harness after opening, and then before I do any spirals I ask if they get motion sickness......if they say affirmative then they are in for a nice easy canopy ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #12 July 18, 2006 Quote I then proceed to do two spirals....maybe a 540 right and a 360 left, nothing too major, especially for a guy on an 'extreme' team asking for a wild ride Quote Have you ever tried this in the passenger seat? Might be supprising how much less comfortable this is. Do not fly the tandemcanopy like you fly you own small stiletto, velocity or whatever. In case my passenger wants spiral turn I let them help steering the canopy. Than they know which side they go. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #13 July 18, 2006 Not YET... but what do I know, maybe someday, I only have 13 tandems nder my belt scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GreenMachine 0 #14 July 18, 2006 Good Morning Ton Lammerts, At the moment I have a Sabre2-150...but I am in the process of ordering a Sabre2-120. Yes, I have done 360s on the front of a tandem and it is definitely different than doing them alone on a sport rig. Yes, the passenger was helping steer with me. The funniest part was that he was on some extreme bike team and specifically requested me to take him for a wild ride. I agree with you, I always ask the passenger(customer) if they get sick easy, if they say no I usually give them one gentle 360 and then ask them how that felt, then fly the rest of the canopy descent accordingly.Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GreenMachine 0 #15 July 18, 2006 Thanks guys for the stories & advice. I will probably get some cargo pockets put on a set of tandem pants --- put some sick bags on one side with a rag and a pack of gum on the other side Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Schoenauer 0 #16 July 18, 2006 On average I see a puker around every 1000 jumps. The first one, of course was the worst and rightfully so it was the most memorable. A lady that had a nice big old country breakfast. You know the type, eggs, hash browns, some type of pork product, juice, and coffee. Her spatter was all over her self, the equipment, and me. My god, it was an outstanding example of being helplessly trapped with no chance of escape. The smell, the feel of worm liquid agents my skin, and taste. Christ it made me dry heave several times. Since then I take a change of clothing with me to the DZ and also I jump with a student puke bag which I have handed it out a few times but had it used once. That time it was a guy who displayed the most impressive muscular retching but a disappointment in volume for his labor. I like to talk to my student asking them how they feel all the time, and if they are or get real quite I start reaching for the bag. I also let them fly the canopy it gives them something to do which takes there mind of how they feel.Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #17 July 19, 2006 QuoteI have heard the popular reason " leg straps too tight", but I find this problematic, as a loose strap is a bigger risk than having some extra laundry to do. After opening, I readjust the legstraps, so that they are positioned further down the thigh, so that the student it sitting in the harness rather than hanging from it, with older style harnesses at least. This way, you can have the harness tight in freefall but alleviate the pressure under canopy. This usually requires briefing the student on the ground, actually demonstrating the position of the harness around the backside, how to locate it...with both hands (students are usually reluctant to let go of the harness to do such things or even look down to help themselves) and how to slide it down the thigh, which usually requires lifting the knee higher than the hip. This is a lot harder to achieve in the air without a brieifing after the disorientation of freefall, the fear of being up high and the noise of the wind. With larger students I often find myself having to reach down, grab the jumpsuit, lift their leg and slide the legstrap down for them, which can be quite a wrestle! I wonder if anyone is going to say whether this is too risky? I think the risk of anyone falling out of the harness in this situation is unrealistic. I take great care to move the harness only enough to relieve the pressure on the femoral artery. The effort required to move the legstraps is significant enough to make passing all the way through the legstraps unlikely. The tandem instructor's body behind is going to provide a big enough barrier to prevent any siginificant movement. Plus, I loosen and reattach my laterals after opening. The forces and situations involved where students have fallen out of harnesses in freefall are much different to those under canopy.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfitz 0 #18 July 19, 2006 A little over 1800 tandems and no pukers yet(Knock on wood). I have had a few that puke on the ground but none in the air(Knock on wood again). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Adrenalinejunky 0 #19 July 19, 2006 QuoteAfter opening, I readjust the legstraps, so that they are positioned further down the thigh, so that the student it sitting in the harness rather than hanging from it, with older style harnesses at least I wonder if anyone is going to say whether this is too risky? I am rated on the Eclipse and the Vector systems, and I believe that it is the Vector manual that talks about exactly what you are doing. They explain how to work with your student to slide the leg straps down the thigh slightly to alieviate the pressure on the femoral artery. So, you are absolutely correct in your procedure. I purchased my own Sigma harness for my students comfort. It positions the legs in more of a sitting position after opening to reduce the pressure on the femoral artery. I haven't had a student complain yet since I started using that harness. But I am sure that the time will come. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #20 July 19, 2006 QuoteI believe that it is the Vector manual that talks about exactly what you are doing. Yes, you are correct! Page 60 of the Relative Workshop Vector II Tandem manual describes the "sit back drill (for student comfort)". I must have got it from there, or another TI telling me about it.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Adrenalinejunky 0 #21 July 19, 2006 QuoteYes, you are correct! Page 60 of the Relative Workshop Vector II Tandem manual describes the "sit back drill (for student comfort)". LOL!!! You either have the manual in front of you, or one hell of a memory!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimjumper 25 #22 July 19, 2006 We put sea sickness bands on all our passengers and it has helped a lot. Maybe 1 in 1000 actually throws up. You can get them for about $15 at any drug store in the same section as dramamine. They supposedly trigger an accupressure point to avoid nausea. It's better than being puked on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #23 July 23, 2006 Over the years, about 20 tandem students have vomited on me under canopy. One student said - after landing - "I got a bit of a flu last week." All the other pukers skipped a meal, usually breakfast, but my last puker skipped supper, before an evening jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NotASalmon 0 #24 July 23, 2006 Ok guys, I usually just lurk here from time to time to check up on old friends, (haven't jumped in a while), but I have to share this story. It was back in '98 or '99 at Monterey. I'd just started doing tandems, in fact, it was my 2nd. My first went beautifully, and ended with a kiss on the cheek by a very grateful, and very pretty female passenger. I was on top of the world....after all....what could possibly go wrong.... I met my next student. He was a very polite and eager young college student from India. At that time we were jumping one of Roger Nelson's otters, and getting great altitude. (15k min) I believe DiverDriver was the pilot. The jump went perfectly. Sitting nicely in the saddle at 5k, I adjusted his leg straps for comfort, and made some rotations to show off the amazing view, when he got quiet. I asked him "are you feeling ok?", he responded, "yes, fine, thank you", but I though he seemed a little queezy. I followed my training, and put the canopy in a very slow turn, and instructed him to lean into the turn if he was going to be sick. He assured me that he was fine. I handed him the student toggles, but he gripped them kinda loosely, and didn't seem to be entirely there, so I instructed him to hold onto his harness and that I would perform the landing. After completing our downwind, and making our turn for final, all was well. The sunset was beautiful, the winds were perfect, and I was just beginning my flare when it happened. He jerked his head up and proceeded to projectile vomit directly into the headwind, completely covering my head with his lunch. I was blinded, and had no choice but to continue my flare and hope for the best, all the while trying desperately not to puke on the back of his head. We landed on our feet, and without incident, and were met by several fellow tandem masters as well as the ground crew who had all witnessed the incident.(I was new, and dumping high, so last man down) I took little comfort when everone patted me on the back and said "that's the worst I've ever seen!" I just found an old bottle of curry powder in my pantry yesterday, and tossed it promptly into the trash. To this day I can't even drive by an Indian restaurant! Scott Jennings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverton 0 #25 July 24, 2006 QuoteGood Morning Ton Lammerts, At the moment I have a Sabre2-150...but I am in the process of ordering a Sabre2-120. Yes, I have done 360s on the front of a tandem and it is definitely different than doing them alone on a sport rig. Yes, the passenger was helping steer with me. The funniest part was that he was on some extreme bike team and specifically requested me to take him for a wild ride. I agree with you, I always ask the passenger(customer) if they get sick easy, if they say no I usually give them one gentle 360 and then ask them how that felt, then fly the rest of the canopy descent accordingly. Ok, well sometimes it just happens. I saw a couple of times a TM continiously steering/spinning the tandemcanopy and wodering why he has such an high pukerate. One ride on the front confinced him. For the rest Have fun, stay safe Ton ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
piisfish 135 #13 July 18, 2006 Not YET... but what do I know, maybe someday, I only have 13 tandems nder my belt scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenMachine 0 #14 July 18, 2006 Good Morning Ton Lammerts, At the moment I have a Sabre2-150...but I am in the process of ordering a Sabre2-120. Yes, I have done 360s on the front of a tandem and it is definitely different than doing them alone on a sport rig. Yes, the passenger was helping steer with me. The funniest part was that he was on some extreme bike team and specifically requested me to take him for a wild ride. I agree with you, I always ask the passenger(customer) if they get sick easy, if they say no I usually give them one gentle 360 and then ask them how that felt, then fly the rest of the canopy descent accordingly.Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenMachine 0 #15 July 18, 2006 Thanks guys for the stories & advice. I will probably get some cargo pockets put on a set of tandem pants --- put some sick bags on one side with a rag and a pack of gum on the other side Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schoenauer 0 #16 July 18, 2006 On average I see a puker around every 1000 jumps. The first one, of course was the worst and rightfully so it was the most memorable. A lady that had a nice big old country breakfast. You know the type, eggs, hash browns, some type of pork product, juice, and coffee. Her spatter was all over her self, the equipment, and me. My god, it was an outstanding example of being helplessly trapped with no chance of escape. The smell, the feel of worm liquid agents my skin, and taste. Christ it made me dry heave several times. Since then I take a change of clothing with me to the DZ and also I jump with a student puke bag which I have handed it out a few times but had it used once. That time it was a guy who displayed the most impressive muscular retching but a disappointment in volume for his labor. I like to talk to my student asking them how they feel all the time, and if they are or get real quite I start reaching for the bag. I also let them fly the canopy it gives them something to do which takes there mind of how they feel.Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #17 July 19, 2006 QuoteI have heard the popular reason " leg straps too tight", but I find this problematic, as a loose strap is a bigger risk than having some extra laundry to do. After opening, I readjust the legstraps, so that they are positioned further down the thigh, so that the student it sitting in the harness rather than hanging from it, with older style harnesses at least. This way, you can have the harness tight in freefall but alleviate the pressure under canopy. This usually requires briefing the student on the ground, actually demonstrating the position of the harness around the backside, how to locate it...with both hands (students are usually reluctant to let go of the harness to do such things or even look down to help themselves) and how to slide it down the thigh, which usually requires lifting the knee higher than the hip. This is a lot harder to achieve in the air without a brieifing after the disorientation of freefall, the fear of being up high and the noise of the wind. With larger students I often find myself having to reach down, grab the jumpsuit, lift their leg and slide the legstrap down for them, which can be quite a wrestle! I wonder if anyone is going to say whether this is too risky? I think the risk of anyone falling out of the harness in this situation is unrealistic. I take great care to move the harness only enough to relieve the pressure on the femoral artery. The effort required to move the legstraps is significant enough to make passing all the way through the legstraps unlikely. The tandem instructor's body behind is going to provide a big enough barrier to prevent any siginificant movement. Plus, I loosen and reattach my laterals after opening. The forces and situations involved where students have fallen out of harnesses in freefall are much different to those under canopy.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #18 July 19, 2006 A little over 1800 tandems and no pukers yet(Knock on wood). I have had a few that puke on the ground but none in the air(Knock on wood again). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adrenalinejunky 0 #19 July 19, 2006 QuoteAfter opening, I readjust the legstraps, so that they are positioned further down the thigh, so that the student it sitting in the harness rather than hanging from it, with older style harnesses at least I wonder if anyone is going to say whether this is too risky? I am rated on the Eclipse and the Vector systems, and I believe that it is the Vector manual that talks about exactly what you are doing. They explain how to work with your student to slide the leg straps down the thigh slightly to alieviate the pressure on the femoral artery. So, you are absolutely correct in your procedure. I purchased my own Sigma harness for my students comfort. It positions the legs in more of a sitting position after opening to reduce the pressure on the femoral artery. I haven't had a student complain yet since I started using that harness. But I am sure that the time will come. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #20 July 19, 2006 QuoteI believe that it is the Vector manual that talks about exactly what you are doing. Yes, you are correct! Page 60 of the Relative Workshop Vector II Tandem manual describes the "sit back drill (for student comfort)". I must have got it from there, or another TI telling me about it.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adrenalinejunky 0 #21 July 19, 2006 QuoteYes, you are correct! Page 60 of the Relative Workshop Vector II Tandem manual describes the "sit back drill (for student comfort)". LOL!!! You either have the manual in front of you, or one hell of a memory!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimjumper 25 #22 July 19, 2006 We put sea sickness bands on all our passengers and it has helped a lot. Maybe 1 in 1000 actually throws up. You can get them for about $15 at any drug store in the same section as dramamine. They supposedly trigger an accupressure point to avoid nausea. It's better than being puked on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #23 July 23, 2006 Over the years, about 20 tandem students have vomited on me under canopy. One student said - after landing - "I got a bit of a flu last week." All the other pukers skipped a meal, usually breakfast, but my last puker skipped supper, before an evening jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotASalmon 0 #24 July 23, 2006 Ok guys, I usually just lurk here from time to time to check up on old friends, (haven't jumped in a while), but I have to share this story. It was back in '98 or '99 at Monterey. I'd just started doing tandems, in fact, it was my 2nd. My first went beautifully, and ended with a kiss on the cheek by a very grateful, and very pretty female passenger. I was on top of the world....after all....what could possibly go wrong.... I met my next student. He was a very polite and eager young college student from India. At that time we were jumping one of Roger Nelson's otters, and getting great altitude. (15k min) I believe DiverDriver was the pilot. The jump went perfectly. Sitting nicely in the saddle at 5k, I adjusted his leg straps for comfort, and made some rotations to show off the amazing view, when he got quiet. I asked him "are you feeling ok?", he responded, "yes, fine, thank you", but I though he seemed a little queezy. I followed my training, and put the canopy in a very slow turn, and instructed him to lean into the turn if he was going to be sick. He assured me that he was fine. I handed him the student toggles, but he gripped them kinda loosely, and didn't seem to be entirely there, so I instructed him to hold onto his harness and that I would perform the landing. After completing our downwind, and making our turn for final, all was well. The sunset was beautiful, the winds were perfect, and I was just beginning my flare when it happened. He jerked his head up and proceeded to projectile vomit directly into the headwind, completely covering my head with his lunch. I was blinded, and had no choice but to continue my flare and hope for the best, all the while trying desperately not to puke on the back of his head. We landed on our feet, and without incident, and were met by several fellow tandem masters as well as the ground crew who had all witnessed the incident.(I was new, and dumping high, so last man down) I took little comfort when everone patted me on the back and said "that's the worst I've ever seen!" I just found an old bottle of curry powder in my pantry yesterday, and tossed it promptly into the trash. To this day I can't even drive by an Indian restaurant! Scott Jennings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #25 July 24, 2006 QuoteGood Morning Ton Lammerts, At the moment I have a Sabre2-150...but I am in the process of ordering a Sabre2-120. Yes, I have done 360s on the front of a tandem and it is definitely different than doing them alone on a sport rig. Yes, the passenger was helping steer with me. The funniest part was that he was on some extreme bike team and specifically requested me to take him for a wild ride. I agree with you, I always ask the passenger(customer) if they get sick easy, if they say no I usually give them one gentle 360 and then ask them how that felt, then fly the rest of the canopy descent accordingly. Ok, well sometimes it just happens. I saw a couple of times a TM continiously steering/spinning the tandemcanopy and wodering why he has such an high pukerate. One ride on the front confinced him. For the rest Have fun, stay safe Ton ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
