d123 1 #201 June 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat about black color on top skin. Mine is like that and I've thought it's easy to spot and such! The B2 (Stealth) Bomber is black. Does that suggest anything to you? Still, one has to distinguish between the types of conditions and ranges where one wants to see things. After all, the Brits very carefully chose a high gloss BLACK for their BAE Hawk jets in training use, for HIGH VISIBILITY. I'm only commenting on what might be an overgeneralized comparison, not the specifics of a particular colour in a skydiving environment. Actually I'm more on the kallend side due to an experience of mine. I have to be way more careful now that swoopers might not see me.Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #202 June 9, 2010 Quote > What, in your view, indicates that a jumper is ready for an elliptical? Logical answer: when PD recommends it and if everyone jumps off a cliff.. you're the first to go right after!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #203 June 9, 2010 how big the cliff, how many everyone and how long of a delay is "right after"? Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #204 June 9, 2010 “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #205 June 9, 2010 Quote > What, in your view, indicates that a jumper is ready for an elliptical? Logical answer: when PD recommends it Of course, PD doesn't actually watch any prospective customer to see what their actual ability level is.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #206 June 9, 2010 QuoteOf course, PD doesn't actually watch any prospective customer to see what their actual ability level is. True. Although they do often call DZ's to confirm a jumper is cleared for the canopy they are attempting to buy/demo. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the OP tried to demo one and filled in all the correct info honestly. I don't know if they'd let it out or not but it'd be interesting. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #207 June 10, 2010 QuoteFail. I didn't claim Roger or Bob were flying right or state whether or not they could have avoided their collisions; you did. FAIL!!!! Sorry, you sure did mention collisions. You shot yourself in the foot, accept it and move on. QuoteI have remained silent on those points because their collisions are not relevant to this narrowly focused tangent within the larger thread about student and/or low-timer use of Stilettos. It is relevant when you make a statement about people flying right not needing to do an avoidance maneuver. Again, accept it and move along."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #208 June 10, 2010 A Stiletto is a shitty student canopy for all the same reasons it's a shitty expert Canopy. Seriously? Who the fuck is buying Stilettos asnyways? Why the hell would a student want to jump one? If anything, go jump a Kitana or NEOS or something modern. Not some 20 year old canopy that nobody but Craig Gerard would be caught dead under! Honestly, the fact that this discussion is about a Stiletto makes me wonder what the point actually is. There's not a student in the world hoping to some day buy a Stiletto. _Am __ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #209 June 10, 2010 Yeah. Somebody should write PD and tell them to stop making that shitty Stiletto. I bet their shelves are full of unsold inventory and they're just too stupid to stop making them. "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #210 June 10, 2010 WELL, SOME PEOPLE STILL BUY THEM scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sergant 0 #211 June 10, 2010 Quote WELL, SOME PEOPLE STILL BUY THEM I guess they have a reason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #212 June 11, 2010 there are huge market for stiletto. But since Storm and Pulse are out they should stop making spector and silluete.. Why didn't they call them Spector 2 and Silluette 2???Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #213 June 12, 2010 It's called sarcasm. Why the hell hasn't the sarcasm font been introduced??? "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #214 June 12, 2010 The Storm and the Spectre are completely different categories with very different flying characteristics. People who like one may not like the other... The Pulse is also a more aggressive canopy than the Silhouette. There is a market for them all.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #215 June 12, 2010 Me again. Oh God I know...Lets just stay off the I am an idiot for my canopy choice thing and we will be fine. I only posted because despite my low jump numbers I have experience on all of those canopies except the Silhouette. They definitely are VERY different. The Storm is steeper where the Spectre is relatively flat. The Storm's flare is way more dynamic as well. The Pulse is very responsive, where the Silhouette is not so much from what I have heard. Don't know for sure as I have never personally jumped one, but I have 20+ jumps on the Pulse and it is quick in turns. Amazing openings too. Just my two cents. Oh yeah the Pulse is awesome for jumpers that may want to downsize in the future because it packs WAY smaller giving room to downsize in a container without buying a new one. Plus it is a breeze to pack. But I can't possibly know anything. I only have 125 jumps, and as we all know that is nothing.I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #216 June 12, 2010 QuoteI only posted because despite my low jump numbers I have experience on all of those canopies But I can't possibly know anything. I only have 125 jumps, and as we all know that is nothing. This is where you miss the point. In a perfect world in perfect conditions, a wide range of jumpers can jump a wide range of canopies, many outside of what most would consider 'normal' in terms of WL and performance. The trouble is that this is not a perfect world, and you are prone to encoutner unusual situaitons. Putting a handful of test jumps on this canopy or that does not make you an expert on any of them, or on any canopy at all. It gives you a glimpse, a mere peek into what the canopies are all about, but in no way does it give you an understanding of the complete performance envelope. You don't know how your canopy, or you for that matter, will react when push comes to shove and you find yourself in a situation you don't want to be in. The solution to this is to limit the performance of your canopy until you have proven yourself as being able to handle it. A lower performance canopy will have a higher tolerance for mistakes, and overall is harder to get into trouble with. The slower your flying, the more time you have to make (good) choices. When things start getting 'tight', and your canopy doesn't have a 'slow down' button, that's when people get hurt. You do realize that you dig yourself further and further into the hole with your, "I'm doing just fine so far" and, "I must know nothing becuase I only have 125 jumps" attitude, right? It genuinely makes you look like a guy who knows nothing. Speaking of which, have you considered that you might not know as much as you think you do? Let's face it, in terms of jumper 'experience', 125 isn't exactly on the upper end of things. It's a fine accomplishment for anyone, but the bar has already been set much, much higher. I'm not sure how many there are out there, but I woud have to think that there are at least 1000 people on this planet that have 5000 jumps. I can think of a couple dozen off the top of my head who are on the high side of 10,000 jumps, and there are a select few upwards of 30,000. What do you think all of those people did from jump 125 on? Not learn a thing becuase learning time was already over? You'll catch a lot more flies if you just tone down the attitude and be a little more reasonable. You don't even have to make good choices (like not jumping a Stiletto), but don't stand so rigidly behind the bad choices like they're not what they are, bad choices. We've all made mistakes at one point or another when we thought we were on the right track. AS teenagers I'd bet we all did it with more knowledgable people telling us it was wrong, but we did it anyway. The problem here is that you sound like a teenager. Own up to the reality of what you're doing, and state that. As an adult, you choose to take chances; one of them is to jump out of planes, and another is to jump a canopy nto designed for a jumper of your experience. Nobody here can argue with that because we're all guilty of the first part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #217 June 12, 2010 QuoteThe Storm and the Spectre are completely different categories with very different flying characteristics. People who like one may not like the other... I have one of each (both 135sq.ft). They sure fly differently.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #218 June 13, 2010 davelepka. First off I never claimed to ba an expert of any canopy. You act like I made that claim. I have 12-20 jumps each on Storm, Spectre, and Pulse. Although I am by no means a master of any of them I tasted enough to know that they are all very different. Stop being so negative about anything I have to say and actually read what I said. Second off I said leave my canopy choice alone, and we wouldn't have any problems. You can't help yourself can you? Let it go. We disagree, fine. Third, my attitude comes from people like you constantly talking about their jump numbers and experience, while belittling mine, all without actually talking about the reasons why you disagree. You whine about my "ego", attitude, and lack of expereince, but you don't want to debate actual facts about the canopy. The truth is low panic turns on any canopy can kill you. The truth is I can have a spinner and cutaway on a square too. Leave it alone, or be prepared to talk about facts about the canopy and wingloading, and WHY it is not ok at my skill level (which by the way you can't know just by jump numbers) As I stated way earlier I agree the freaking thing is not for everyone, but you don't need 100's and 100's of jumps to safely fly a large one with a light wingloading. Disagree? Fine.I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scratch69 0 #219 June 13, 2010 How to word this without sounding like a personal attack . . . . hmmmm . . . . The more you talk the dumber you sound. In fact, trying to explain the difference in canopy flight characteristics at your jump numbers is the equivalent of a rookie player jumping behind the bench to coach the team in the first game of the season. You're a freaking TADPOLE. Deal with it. You have no idea what you are talking about and spouting off a bunch of comments that you read somewhere else as your "own experience" doesn't make you knowledgeable about jack squat. Could you PLEASE just GO AWAY and fly your cool kid Stiletto? Get off this forum and go prove to us that you are as invincible as your attitude and comments claim. I expect that the next forum I'll be finding you in will be Incidents so go out and make momma proud. But for the the love of shit, JUST STOP TALKING. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #220 June 13, 2010 QuoteSecond off I said leave my canopy choice alone, and we wouldn't have any problems. That's EXACTLY the "ego and attitude" that they're talking about. QuoteThird, my attitude comes from people like you constantly talking about their jump numbers and experience, while belittling mine, all without actually talking about the reasons why you disagree. You whine about my "ego", attitude, and lack of expereince, but you don't want to debate actual facts about the canopy. They've been doing that the whole thread, and they get "ego and attitude" in return. QuoteLeave it alone, or be prepared to talk about facts about the canopy and wingloading, and WHY it is not ok at my skill level (which by the way you can't know just by jump numbers) They've been doing that, too, and guess what they got in return? They just don't respect your mad skillz. Fuggit....any squares left on that bingo card? Put me down for two.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #221 June 13, 2010 Quote The Storm is steeper where the Spectre is relatively flat. The Storm's flare is way more dynamic as well. The Pulse is very responsive, etc... (Not sure what the dynamic flare implies, since we don't have standardized terminology for such things.) But anyway, I think I'll mix it up here again. So Mr. 125 jump newbie expresses an opinion, and admits he's a newbie. Then people gang up on him and say in effect, he's an arrogant newbie who doesn't know anything. Maybe. But nobody actually argues against anything he actually wrote about a canopy. (We're talking about the recent Pulse / Storm / Silhouette canopy info, not the earlier Stiletto debate.) They don't say, "Your opinion on canopy X is simplistic and wrong because of ...." The argument just goes back to, "You're an arrogant newbie who can't possibly know much about canopies with a few jumps on each." It's true his base of experience is low. But having done a number of jumps on a few different canopies recently is actually decent experience. Yeah, some people have 30,000 jumps. Then let Mr. 30,000 jumps explain the difference between the flight characteristics of the different canopies. But he isn't posting here. So if you want to convince Mr. 125 jumps that he knows nothing, it might help to provide some real evidence other than just repeating that he knows nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #222 June 13, 2010 Do you think that this chatting loop that we see here is fuel by the fact that nobody here wants to respect someone who's crying for respect?Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #223 June 13, 2010 QuoteDo you think that this chatting loop that we see here is fuel by the fact that nobody here wants to respect someone who's crying for respect? It seems that nobody here has observed his canopy flying either.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #224 June 13, 2010 A well-written post, Dave. Good points, supportive and clear. Having read ahead through the thread, it's tempting to say you wasted your time. However, perhaps another young jumper will read it some day and it won't fall on deaf ears. Nova "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bdb2004 24 #225 June 13, 2010 QuoteI only have 125 jumps, and as we all know that is nothing. I've never posted here, but dude, I just have to respond at this point. I jump at the same dropzone as davelepka, He knows what he is talking about. You should listen to him. But that's not why I'm responding. I'm responding because of an experience I had yesterday. On my 75th jump, I was using a rental 220 Manta because my Sabre2 190 (1.0 loading) was having a reserve repack. On final, for some stupid reason, I flared a bit high. For some even stupider reason, I let up on the toggles. I let out an "oh shit" that my girlfriend heard from the picnic bench and PLF'ed the shit out of the landing. I haven't flared high like that since I was on student status. Thankfully I was under the 220 Manta. It might not have been so pretty under my Sabre2 190. And imagine what it might have looked like under a Stiletto 190....Or are you 100% confident that you would NEVER make that mistake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
