mfrese 0 #26 June 21, 2006 Re-reading this thread made me remember a fairly ugly incident from a few years ago that got the TM, not the student. A fairly new TM (<50 tandems) was convinced he could stand up every student at a hot, dry, Norcal dropzone. And being a hot, dry day, he was wearing shorts. So he comes in on final, flares and planes out, still has way too much speed, puts feet down to slide, and basically stops in place. Momentum takes over, student and TM separate (imagine a capital "A" with the two legs being pulled in opposite directions), student slides on butt, TM gets dragged about fifteen feet over dirt like concrete on bare knees and thighs. Not sure if re-attached laterals would have made a difference, but it might have saved a few inches of skin. The student was fine and was wondering what all the groaning was about...took about two weeks before we stopped seeing blood soaking through the TM's pants after that one. Doctor I ain't gonna die, Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadwood 0 #27 June 21, 2006 As to possible landing problems, see my previous post up towards the top of this thread. And nobody has yet answered my question, "What is the safety advantage of leaving them unhooked?"He who hesitates shall inherit the earth. Deadwood Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #28 June 22, 2006 QuoteThankfully, the side straps on my 2k3 Racer tandem loosen automatically after the canopy has deployed and the drogue has collapsed Best system on the market today, hands down.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #29 June 23, 2006 You know what they say about oppinions. (How a tandem rig with the largest margin for potential malfunctions can be the best is beyond me)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #30 June 23, 2006 About the one that has only one system for releasing the drogue can be the best is way beyond me. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=850862;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #31 June 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteThankfully, the side straps on my 2k3 Racer tandem loosen automatically after the canopy has deployed and the drogue has collapsed Best system on the market today, hands down. I've not seen a Racer tandem system, but I was informed by a local rigger that, while really good systems, they're not built as tough as RWS/Strong gear. His opinion was that a Racer was a great personal tandem rig, but not industrial-strength enough to be economical in a busy rotation. Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #32 June 23, 2006 QuoteThoughts? Yes I call it bias. Ask Chuck how his 2K3 is holding up. Just because Sherman does not like to sell BS, it does not make the 2K3 a lesser rig. If it was my money I know which one to buy.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #33 June 24, 2006 QuoteAbout the one that has only one system for releasing the drogue can be the best is way beyond me. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=850862;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Only one way, huh? The sigma has two main deployment handles. If you look at the possible malfunction tree, you can easily see the Sigma removes an easy 1/3rd of possible container based malfunctions than the coventional three ring design. Good thing the Racer complicates that by adding an extra main closing pin, extra wear points in the lower harness connection system, and a drogue that leaves alot to be desired. But that's ok, next you'll do like many racer fanatics and tell me about the fatality record of Racer tnadems vs. all other tandem rigs. Not hard to do when there's only been handful of Racers built. QuoteJust because Sherman does not like to sell BS, it does not make the 2K3 a lesser rig. BS, like the way he personaly told me how the low porosity (F111) type material on the bottom skin of the Firebolt was going to make it a higer performance swoop wing than any full ZP canopy? Of how the same planform could be scaled into a docile Tandem main, and an 88 sq ft "swoop monster"? Of course the above Sigma suport is just one asholes oppinion. Mine.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #34 June 24, 2006 QuoteOnly one way, huh? The sigma has two main deployment handles Have you ever even taken a look at a Sigma? ONE SYSTEM ONLY TO RELEASE THE DROGUE. You can have 1000 main handles on the Sigma but there is only one pin closing the main container where all the handles are attached. If the pin gets stuck (easy to rig it so by the way) you are left firing the reserve into the drogue and hopefully don't die. At least with the VII the two main handles work independently. Of course with the VII you got out-of-sequence deployment problem and the fucked up FF position. QuoteIf you look at the possible malfunction tree, you can easily see the Sigma removes an easy 1/3rd of possible container based malfunctions than the coventional three ring design Glad someone is buying all that marketing hype.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #35 June 24, 2006 QuoteHave you ever even taken a look at a Sigma? No. In 1200+ SIGMA tandems, I've never looked at the rig. QuoteONE SYSTEM ONLY TO RELEASE THE DROGUE. Yep, just like the VII, the Strong, the Racer..... They all have ONE three ring system. QuoteIf the pin gets stuck (easy to rig it so by the way) Damn near impossible actually. Far easier (as proven through out the history of tandem skydiving) to mis-rig a three ring. But no, really, tell us why the Racer tandem rig is so secure it needs a second pin on the main. Tell us how the student harness lower connection system has cause main deployments when not intended. Some time simplicity is nice. Oh, and the link you posted about the fatality in Japan? Read about it next time.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #36 June 24, 2006 QuoteYep, just like the VII, the Strong, the Racer..... They all have ONE three ring system. You still don't get it. On the VII the two release handles are INDEPENDENT unlike the Sigma. Quote us how the student harness lower connection system has cause main deployments when not intended. Sure, when the TI forgot to hook the bottom snaps QuoteOh, and the link you posted about the fatality in Japan? Read about it next time. Do you acually know what happened, really? JP, we can go on and on until kindomcome. I jump VII and Sigma but if I had to buy one or have the choice to jump what ever I want it'd be a Racer for sure.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bentonu2 0 #37 June 29, 2006 The side clips shouldn't be that tight that you need the student to stand on your feet to undo the clips. if you do need them to stand on your feet the side clips are to tight. It's is much more comfortable for the student having done a lot of tandems on the front aswell, and it is much easier to land. Remember it is all about the student so you have to make it as comfortable for them as possible. Swoopgaz I don't know where you got your TI rating but you better have a rethink about what you said above, it is not about the student being loose on the front so to being comfortable, man don't you realize that untight side adjusters can and does lead to un-controllable sidespins/passengers falling out of there harness etc, fit the Passenger harness correctly and fit the passenger firm and snug to the TI and do yourself a favour, remember that the person on the front is trying as hard as they can to kill you, and you want to help them. best of luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bentonu2 0 #38 June 29, 2006 And nobody has yet answered my question, "What is the safety advantage of leaving them unhooked?" deadwood while under a good canopy there is no safety advantage in unhooked, as there really is no advantage in havng them hook up either, it comes down to personal preference, for me tight in freefall and loose/unclipped while under canopy works great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyer299 0 #39 June 30, 2006 My tandem course director told me a story of leaving the lowers unclipped and having it grab onto a toggle during a spiral. Of course, it shouldn't be to hard to release to toggle after that, but it isn't a game that I want to play with. So I loosen all the way and rehook them. If I have my hands full and don't rehook them, I don't bring the toggles anywhere near the bottom to avoid such a snag. Sounds like the chances of it happening are slim... But I am all about stacking the odds in my favor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
