Kimblair13 0 #1 May 19, 2006 OK...how many tandems, on average, do you think a person should have before they have "semi-normal" exits? I mean...do you think right away an Instructor should be OK at them? After Phase 1 and 2? 100 tandems? More? Explain please. And...how many tandems can someone go being fucking scary without anyone saying anything? When should it boil down to someones rating just being yanked? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #2 May 19, 2006 IMO, anyone that holds a tandem rating should be able to control their exits, and be able to deploy the drouge while stable, and have the passenger into the relative wind for correct bridle/drouge placement within 10 seconds after leaving the aircraft. If a TI is exiting and not able to control their stablility and deploying the drouge to gain stability, or causing an unsafe drouge deployment with the possibility of drouge entanglement, they should have their rating suspended until they can exit safely with a tandem examiner. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #3 May 19, 2006 what is "semi-normal"? i would say that i have consistant exits, but they're consistantly unstable where i don't have my student into the relative wind all the time. but i never feel out of control. so what's "semi-normal". also going out of an otter or caravan is shit ton easier for me then the 182, but that's just me. of course if i do more than 1 tandem every 3 months it might help out my consistancy too, but who needs to stay current any way .Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #4 May 19, 2006 "Semi-normal" would be you. I don't have to say what/who is not normal. You know. And Slick Rick needs to do his phase 2 jumps with you tomorrow, ok? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #5 May 19, 2006 QuoteOK...how many tandems, on average, do you think a person should have before they have "semi-normal" exits? I mean...do you think right away an Instructor should be OK at them? After Phase 1 and 2? 100 tandems? More? Explain please. I'm a little confused by "semi-normal" as well...what do you mean by that? I'm kind of taking it to mean something other than belly into the relative wind...just out stable and drogue out. If I'm following correctly I think it depends a lot on what the TI's experience was before they got their rating. It seems like it would be a case by case scenario, depends mostly on the TI's level of experience and comfort. QuoteAnd...how many tandems can someone go being fucking scary without anyone saying anything? When should it boil down to someones rating just being yanked? Scary to who? If it's the DZO or manager they are scaring then I would guess it would only be one before someone says something. If it is a video guy or another tandem instructor getting scared I guess it would depend on the situation, but should probably be brought up to the DZO to handle. I've on rare occasions shown some scary footage of a tandem (thrown drogue on back, lack of control, etc.) to the DZO or manager just so they would have a heads up on how their staff is performing...but I don't feel it is my place to lecture the TI on how scary they are.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #6 May 19, 2006 QuoteAnd Slick Rick needs to do his phase 2 jumps with you tomorrow, ok? uhhhh....yeah, about that, i don't exactly like riding on the front. i'm more of the being on top type of person, but thanks for the offer.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverjerry 0 #8 May 20, 2006 priority one get out two get stable into the relative wind three get the drouge out, with over 4000 tandems 1 thing is in my mind be safe do it the same do it safe no bull shit in my opinion if you cant stick with the program that is follow the safe SAFE! system that has been developed dont do tandem if ego demands that you need to step outside the safe way of working into the wind and avoiding a side pin well ............... back loops dive exits et dont have anything to do with tandems o and fear is good it makes you follwo the procedures and stay safe.life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #9 May 22, 2006 Quoteback loops dive exits et dont have anything to do with tandems bullshit! a well executed backloop exit is a very stable exit (depending on the aircraft) and will have your belly into the wind in an instant. i bet you're one of those tandem masters that sticks your bum in the cameramans face on exit? real good for the customers video!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #10 May 22, 2006 a well executed backloop exit is a very stable exit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Backloop" and "stable" do not belong in the same sentence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #11 May 22, 2006 No need to attack the man, bro. back on topic, I think any of us who have been doing tandems for any length of time have encountered people who just don't get it. At our dropzone we have been pretty lucky. I can only think of one instance where we needed to ground a tandem instructor for his inability to land a parachute and one instance where we dismissed a guy for his inability to grasp the importance of tightening the side straps enough and exit with stability. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #12 May 23, 2006 Quotei bet you're one of those tandem masters that sticks your bum in the cameramans face on exit? I guess I learned the diveout way at the course...but was coaxed into this method at my home DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #13 May 23, 2006 that is very old school thinking, if you face the rear of the aircraft and pop out into a backloop you are instantly stable and the customer gets good footage of the exit!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #14 May 23, 2006 Quote No need to attack the man, bro. Quote you are right i shouldn't attack anyone but the 'i'm shit scared and have to face the wind the whole time and i don't care what footage my customer gets' attitude really pissed me off. i hate that ass shot! you can tell a good tandem master by thier exit, if they only do poised exits then they are not a very god tandem master! tandems take confidence!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kwmontreal 0 #15 May 23, 2006 I see nothing wrong with a TI that ONLY does poised exits. It indicates a preference or exit style, and has absolutely nothing to do with confidence or skill. Know anyone that does poised exits and nails them all the time?? Jump Safe . Kent----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kimblair13 0 #16 May 23, 2006 Quotei hate that ass shot! you can tell a good tandem master by thier exit, if they only do poised exits then they are not a very god tandem master! tandems take confidence! I agree the ass shot is not the best. But... I know 2 very very excellent TI's that do poised exits. All the TI's at my DZ that don't do poised exits pretty much can't do them and have a tumblefuck of an exit. I would much rather see my Instructors ass followed by my face rather quickly, than me and my TI tumbling for 2,000 ft. until the drogue FINALLY comes out. Anyways...to me diving out was easier...did it for my training jumps and first 20-30 or so paid tandems. It took it little more from me to figure out the poised exit. Basically all 500+ tandems of mine have been from 182's...so different planes might make harder/easier exits. I don't know. This is just all my opinion and things I've noticed at my home DZ. I'm sure things can be/are different elsewhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #17 May 23, 2006 I dive my exits out of what few C-182's I have to jump these days, but almost always poise out of Otters and the PAC. I will either dive out or step straight off and do a rear layout off of a tailgate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Miami 0 #18 May 23, 2006 Same for me out of the 182, although I haven't done a tandem out of a 182 for a couple years now. Out of otters I had been doing poised, but for the past 6 months I've been jumping PACs all the time and I have found I am too tall to kneel or crouch in the door, so the student and I sit in the door and hop out to a back layout. When I ever get back to otters I plan on doing the same...in my opinion it is a much nicer exit and is just as safe.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #19 May 23, 2006 We are running into the same thing as you describe with our PAC. While it's a fantastic airplane, the door is simply too low for some tall TM's to do an "Otter style" poise with grace. I can still get away with it with all but the tallest passengers. With larger people up front, I slide down and off the straddle benches, then sit on the floor and let them dangle in front of me. I push off with my left heel while pulling forward and out with my right arm (off the inside floater bar). Hey, whatever works, right? Most of the other guys just sort of scoot down onto the floor and roll sideways out of the plane. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #20 May 24, 2006 "you can tell a good tandem master by their exit, if they only do poised exits then they are not a very god tandem master!" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rhys, Finally we have found something to agree on. I may have done poised exits when I was a new TI - back in the 1080s - but I have not done a poised exit in this century. My last poised exit was something like 16 years ago. I quit doing poised exits because I consider them far too dangerous ... something about my last poised student jamming me into the underside of the wing and bending a reserve pin!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyPsycho 0 #21 August 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteback loops dive exits et dont have anything to do with tandems bullshit! a well executed backloop exit is a very stable exit (depending on the aircraft) and will have your belly into the wind in an instant. i bet you're one of those tandem masters that sticks your bum in the cameramans face on exit? real good for the customers video! let the tm exit however he wants. the customer 99% of the time will not notice that their face isnt in the exit shot, and will still be excited if the exit shot looks good. also, if the tm only does poised exits and you dont like not being able to get a face shot, front float your exit and freefly with them till the drouge comes out and then go about your buisness as usual. theres alwas a solution. _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #22 August 24, 2006 Good point! Stable exits are more important than pretty video. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alaskaskydiving 0 #23 August 25, 2006 If they get their passenger to the ground safe consistently, provide them with a good orientation to the sport, and know their limits and learn, they are a good tandem person. I'll take a good attitude instructor who's boringly safe over one who's an additional risk anyday Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vskydiver 0 #24 August 25, 2006 Quote My last poised exit was something like 16 years ago. I quit doing poised exits because I consider them far too dangerous ... something about my last poised student jamming me into the underside of the wing and bending a reserve pin!!!!!!!!!! I had a premature reserve deployment doing a poised exit from a 182. They are now banned from our DZ on C-182 jumps. From the Otter I do a poised, into the Relative Wind exit, unless the passenger specifically wants a flip or two. A good camera man gets face, not ass, on any exit. On the otter poised exits, the cameraman leaves from the front of the door. Fantastic shots! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Laszloimage 0 #25 August 28, 2006 I guess it's not only the camera guy's job to get the "shot". I think the tandem instructor and the camera person should work together as a team. When I'm doing tandems I keep FLYING whith my camera dude (except when I have some extremly screwed up passenger...), which includes heading right from the exit, drouge delay, pull altitude, etc. So when I shoot video I expect the same thing, which dosen't always happen... Blue SkieS! -Laszlo- www.laszloimage.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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kwmontreal 0 #15 May 23, 2006 I see nothing wrong with a TI that ONLY does poised exits. It indicates a preference or exit style, and has absolutely nothing to do with confidence or skill. Know anyone that does poised exits and nails them all the time?? Jump Safe . Kent----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #16 May 23, 2006 Quotei hate that ass shot! you can tell a good tandem master by thier exit, if they only do poised exits then they are not a very god tandem master! tandems take confidence! I agree the ass shot is not the best. But... I know 2 very very excellent TI's that do poised exits. All the TI's at my DZ that don't do poised exits pretty much can't do them and have a tumblefuck of an exit. I would much rather see my Instructors ass followed by my face rather quickly, than me and my TI tumbling for 2,000 ft. until the drogue FINALLY comes out. Anyways...to me diving out was easier...did it for my training jumps and first 20-30 or so paid tandems. It took it little more from me to figure out the poised exit. Basically all 500+ tandems of mine have been from 182's...so different planes might make harder/easier exits. I don't know. This is just all my opinion and things I've noticed at my home DZ. I'm sure things can be/are different elsewhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #17 May 23, 2006 I dive my exits out of what few C-182's I have to jump these days, but almost always poise out of Otters and the PAC. I will either dive out or step straight off and do a rear layout off of a tailgate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #18 May 23, 2006 Same for me out of the 182, although I haven't done a tandem out of a 182 for a couple years now. Out of otters I had been doing poised, but for the past 6 months I've been jumping PACs all the time and I have found I am too tall to kneel or crouch in the door, so the student and I sit in the door and hop out to a back layout. When I ever get back to otters I plan on doing the same...in my opinion it is a much nicer exit and is just as safe.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #19 May 23, 2006 We are running into the same thing as you describe with our PAC. While it's a fantastic airplane, the door is simply too low for some tall TM's to do an "Otter style" poise with grace. I can still get away with it with all but the tallest passengers. With larger people up front, I slide down and off the straddle benches, then sit on the floor and let them dangle in front of me. I push off with my left heel while pulling forward and out with my right arm (off the inside floater bar). Hey, whatever works, right? Most of the other guys just sort of scoot down onto the floor and roll sideways out of the plane. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #20 May 24, 2006 "you can tell a good tandem master by their exit, if they only do poised exits then they are not a very god tandem master!" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rhys, Finally we have found something to agree on. I may have done poised exits when I was a new TI - back in the 1080s - but I have not done a poised exit in this century. My last poised exit was something like 16 years ago. I quit doing poised exits because I consider them far too dangerous ... something about my last poised student jamming me into the underside of the wing and bending a reserve pin!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #21 August 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteback loops dive exits et dont have anything to do with tandems bullshit! a well executed backloop exit is a very stable exit (depending on the aircraft) and will have your belly into the wind in an instant. i bet you're one of those tandem masters that sticks your bum in the cameramans face on exit? real good for the customers video! let the tm exit however he wants. the customer 99% of the time will not notice that their face isnt in the exit shot, and will still be excited if the exit shot looks good. also, if the tm only does poised exits and you dont like not being able to get a face shot, front float your exit and freefly with them till the drouge comes out and then go about your buisness as usual. theres alwas a solution. _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #22 August 24, 2006 Good point! Stable exits are more important than pretty video. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alaskaskydiving 0 #23 August 25, 2006 If they get their passenger to the ground safe consistently, provide them with a good orientation to the sport, and know their limits and learn, they are a good tandem person. I'll take a good attitude instructor who's boringly safe over one who's an additional risk anyday Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vskydiver 0 #24 August 25, 2006 Quote My last poised exit was something like 16 years ago. I quit doing poised exits because I consider them far too dangerous ... something about my last poised student jamming me into the underside of the wing and bending a reserve pin!!!!!!!!!! I had a premature reserve deployment doing a poised exit from a 182. They are now banned from our DZ on C-182 jumps. From the Otter I do a poised, into the Relative Wind exit, unless the passenger specifically wants a flip or two. A good camera man gets face, not ass, on any exit. On the otter poised exits, the cameraman leaves from the front of the door. Fantastic shots! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #25 August 28, 2006 I guess it's not only the camera guy's job to get the "shot". I think the tandem instructor and the camera person should work together as a team. When I'm doing tandems I keep FLYING whith my camera dude (except when I have some extremly screwed up passenger...), which includes heading right from the exit, drouge delay, pull altitude, etc. So when I shoot video I expect the same thing, which dosen't always happen... Blue SkieS! -Laszlo- www.laszloimage.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
